“Burgh”
We have been criticized on our fantasy message boards for talking Steelers. We have thrown it in to a variety of pages on here. I thought it’d be a good idea to devote a page on this site to not only the Steelers, but Pittsburgh sports in general. While the whole league isn’t from Pittsburgh, Dean, Raible and me are devout Pittsburgh sports fans, knowledgeable and love to discuss. Yetti and The Cat are also frequent viewers. This could be a great place to talk drafts, signings, benchings, depth charts, matchups, etc. A designated place for the Steelers and any other Pittsburgh sports also means those that don’t care about Pittsburgh sports don’t have to read about them. Let the Pittsburgh sports talk begin.
Steelers: Mike Tomlin has to show me something (I’m just a wee bit of a critic), and he would be wise to start with a convincing win on Sunday against the hapless Browns. If Allen Rossum is going to return kicks and punts, then what role does Willie Reid serve? The Simmons extension essentially means that any talk of Faneca coming back is over; if we weren’t going to resign Faneca anyway, then I think locking up Simmons was a good idea. Still interested in seeing who gets the ball on the goal line for the Steelers: Mr. Fumble on the 1-yard line Parker? Mr. Unable to Convert in Short-Yardage Najeh? Mr. Dumbass Got Kicked Out of College Russell? Mr. Cut By 1,000 Teams Carey Davis? I hope Willie (or any of these schmucks) can get the job done.
Pirates: I really hope that this late season surge doesn’t save the jobs of Littlefield and Tracy. Whoever the new CEO is needs to come in and clean house…completely. Jack Wilson is so much better than Cesar Izturis it’s not even funny. Freddy Sanchez is a fucking mule. Good to see Pearce, Bullington, etc. get called up and given the opportunity to play. Still hope McCutcheon gets a chance to win the CF job in Spring Training.
Penguins: Can you believe that the season is only a few weeks away? Should be interesting to see how the boys play with great expectations placed on them. Don’t really understand the point of the new uniforms as they aren’t all that different from the old ones. Prospects Tournament coming up. COLBY!!!
Pitt: With Stull’s injury, who takes over at QB? This is a major decision because the Pat Bostick Era could be upon us. I only want Bostick to play if he enters the game on Saturday and doesn’t come out until he graduates/leaves for the NFL. If they are going to give the job back to Stull in a few weeks, then just play Smith. Whoever plays will more than likely lean on the running game anyway.
I specifically left out Penn State and WVU from this discussion because, as much as Pittsburgh media would hate to admit it, they are NOT PITTSBURGH SPORTS TEAMS! State College is 136.66 miles from Pittsburgh (an estimated 2 hours and 41 minutes); with that in mind, why not consider Cleveland’s sports teams Pittsburgh sports teams (Cleveland is 133.06 miles from Pittsburgh)? The Mountainqueers, meanwhile, reside in another state…so don’t even bring that shit into this humpty bumpty!
Pittsburgh Sports consists of the Steelers, Pirates, Penguins, Pitt, Duquesne/RMU, other local colleges, WPIAL, Wild Things (up 2-0 in their playoff series), Riverhounds, Passion, etc. Pittsburgh Sports does NOT consist of Fag State and WV…me and Jon Burton say so!
Raible
September 6, 2007
Raible You are the man
Dacat
September 6, 2007
Am I missing where anyone mentioned that WVU and Penn State would be talked about here? I don’t get it.
I also don’t get why there always has to be so much hatred and we can’t just have a normal conversation and discussion. The whole running back thing is old, tiring and repetitive. Max Starks is my favorite player, as I have an autographed jersey, but I’m not crying that he lost out to Willie Colon or calling Colon the next Anthony Munoz, because I’m honest with myself and Starks isn’t exactly Munoz either. I have not heard one good thing about Barlow from tv, radio, newspapers or Jon Frank. It’s ignorant or blinding to think that he was any good. Im not sure if any of the guys we have are the answer, but none of the guys we cut were either. Anything short of signing Jamal Lewis or trading up for Adrian Peterson or Marshawn Lynch was going to leave the Steelers in the position that they currently find themselves in.
I thought Davis or Haynes had to be the RB cut and since Haynes was I’m fine with it. I think Okobi is an expensive backup and would have only caused problems yapping his mouth so Im glad we cut him. The only negative is by week 5 if we realize Sean Mahan isn’t the guy, we don’t have Okobi to fall back on. I was disappointed to let Jason Capizzi go. I’m not gonna get carried away here, either, and call him this superstar in the making, but I haven’t heard anything about about Trai Essex in about 3 years, if ever. I’m not a huge Marvel Smith guy, either, and would have liked to have a guy like Capizzi on the roster to practice behind Smith for about 2 years and then possibly be ready to take over the spot. Whether he could have or not, I have no idea, but like I said, Essex won’t either. Plus Tunch and Wolf loved Capizzi, too, so I’m obviously justified.
I think the Rossum trade is stupid. I wish we’d just put Willie Reid back there and say the job is his. No pressure, no worrying about every single punt return being his last. Let him out there in the regular season. If it’s some type of huge problem week after week, then demote him.
thav916
September 6, 2007
Just setting the stage about Penn State and West Virginia…someone has to. These 2 schools are often misinterpreted, in my opinion, as “local” Pittsburgh Sports. Since this is a Pittsburgh Sports page, I wanted to share my opinion on why I think that is a stupid ass phenomenon.
No hatred here, either…the RB thing might be old, but it is justified in my eyes until I see something different. You wanna know what I am tired of hearing? How fucking great Carey Davis and Gary Russell are supposed to be! That’s old news to me.
Verron Haynes, too, is better than both of these dipshits in my eyes; if I have to shut up about how I think Barlow and Haynes are better options, then why doesn’t everyone else have to shut up about Carey Fucking Davis and Gary Douche Bag Russell?
With all of that being said, I hope that I am dead wrong and that we have found the next Jim Brown and Walter Payton. I am first and foremost a Steelers fan here, just one that is angry with what this monkey Tomlin and his idiotic coaching staff is doing. If the Steelers start off 4-1 or 5-0, then I am sure that I will reside firmly on the Tomlin bandwagon.
Raible
September 6, 2007
You better talk WVU-PSU on here or I’m deleting the page!
Wells
September 6, 2007
I think local sports and Pittsburgh sports are two different things, but since no one brought them up anyway, I didn’t see why it was brought up. All of the Jim Brown and Walter Payton talk is just you. I’ve never heard Russell and Davis as “great”. If Barlow and Haynes are picked up by teams and they each run for 1000 yards and Russell and Davis average 1 yard a carry I think you’re justified. I was hoping as much as anyone Barlow would be the man. I actually hoped Barlow and Russell would be the two as I thought they had the most upside. Barlow reverting to early San Fran days and Russell reverting to pre-flunk out days. From the first carry Barlow took this preseason he looked slow. I liken keeping Russell over Barlow to these 2 “what if” situations. What if we kept Duce Staley last year over Willie Parker as a rookie? Would have been worst move of all time. What if we kept Richard Huntley instead of Duce Staley last year? Sure, Huntley sucked, but Duce didn’t provide anything anyway. I like Russell and I’m fine with Davis. I’m hoping they do turn out to both be great. Will either be on the team next year, who even knows? But I didn’t see any reason this preseason that would have made them feel that Barlow and Haynes were must keep players. I’m the type of person that if two things are equal then I’d rather keep a younger guy that potentially could be good than an older guy that will not get any better. Russell, Davis, Barlow and Haynes are all nothing special. While it’s opinion to prefer the young guys with possible upside I don’t see how this is something that can cause someone to get so mad. Until someone on here or some type of local media talks about Russell and Davis being Payton and Brown or someone says that Barlow looks great somewhere else, I don’t see why any of this should be talked about.
I like that Arians will involved Roethlisberger in play calling meetings this year. Not wanting to run plays he doesnt like or not comfortable with. I think the world of Big Ben. I think this will be great.
I wish Tomlin would have experimented a little more on the O-Line. He had some competition and two new starters proves he wasn’t afraid of change, a great attribute of a new coach. But, I think there should have been more. Why not try Kendall Simmons at Center? If they were so high on Willie Colon why not trade him at guard and at LT? Everyone always says Simmons could play Center and maybe even at a high level. They potentially could have had Simmons at Center, Faneca and Kemoeatu at Guard and Marvel and Starks at Tackle. The reason I don’t put Colon instead of Starks is just for flexibility. Colon could have been a backup at 4 positions and be in place to take over for Faneca next season. Mahan could have backed up the Center and the Guard spots. Even if they deemed Colon best at RT, Mahan could have backed up C and G and Starks back up the T’s. The worst that could have come out of this is the exact same starting unit as we have today.
Carey Davis starting at FB over Kreider. Before people complain I think they should answer
-Do you know Davis isn’t a great blocker?
-Do you really think this will cause a different result in the game?
-Has a game even been played yet?
I’m not sure how I feel about this but I hope if Davis is in there he either does a good job or gets back to the bench. I like having weapons on the field and Davis is a better runner and receiver than Kreider. They better use him. Will be interesting to follow.
I think it’s weird that they still haven’t announced the starting free safety. Please just say who is starting. Don’t see what the point is. Also, how can you name Deshea Townsend the starter, no question, about 6 months ago, but then dissect Smith vs Clark up until game time?
thav916
September 6, 2007
We can’t talk about the running back situation but we can continue to dissect the offensive line situation? What is the difference? Better yet, in both cases, who cares?
Raible
September 7, 2007
Carey Davis over Dan Kreider, in my opinion, is fucking retarded. As is cutting Barlow and Haynes. As is starting Colon over Starks. As is starting Mahan and cutting Okobi. As is starting Townsend over McFadden. As is, to a lesser degree, starting Clark over Smith.
Look, I have said time and time again that I hope that I am wrong about Mike Tomlin and the decisions that he is making. But why should I give this nigger the benefit of the doubt? He has as many coaching wins as I do right now. I know that I am cynical, but he’s not gonna earn my respect (his mantra of “our play on the field will tell the story”) until he wins some games.
I also love how people (and I’m not singling anyone out, just in general) seem to want to throw Cowher under the bus now that he is gone. Some idiot on the radio tonight was saying how the way Cowher managed his teams was poor. Then “The Shark” Joe Bendel fired back with the comment that “yeah, and his managing won Super Bowl XL!”
I think that’s the main point in all of this…that no matter what any of us think about Kevan Barlow, Max Starks, Bill Cowher, or Mike Tomlin, the only thing that truly matters and counts is wins in this league, ultimately Super Bowl wins. And, being that we are all Steelers fans here, I think we can all agree that we all hope that Tomlin and the Steelers have great success.
Raible
September 7, 2007
Why talk about anything? This is pointless.
thav916
September 7, 2007
What is pointless, Tim? I mean seriously. It’s pointless because you don’t want to talk about the running backs and only about the offensive line? Dude, c’mon.
Raible
September 7, 2007
Dude, I think that the major difference here between Raible and Haver’s opinions on the Steelers lies in the following (in my opinion) fact: Haver is much more open-minded about the Tomlin regime and the changes that are taking place than Raible is.
For starters, I wanted the team to hire either Ken Whisenhunt or Russ Grimm as its new head coach once Bill Cowher resigned, and was heavily disappointed/annoyed/pissed off when Tomlin was chosen. Haver was certainly more upbeat about the hiring than I was. From the point that he was hired until this very moment, I have been extremely critical of Tomlin and the decisions he has made while Haver seems to have embraced the things that Tomlin has said and some of the changes that have taken place.
Look, I am a big believer in the theory that “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” In that regard, I am not so sure that the Steelers franchise was as broke as some members of the media and some fans believed; an 8-8 record one season after winning the Super Bowl with a lame-duck coach and a franchise QB that almost died in the offseason wasn’t the major disappointment to me as it was for others. I said it before and I’ll say it again, I don’t think that this team is that far away from getting back to the Super Bowl.
With that as a backdrop, I think my feelings on things can better be explained. I think that explains why I favor vets like Barlow and Haynes over Russell and Davis, why I prefer Starks and Okobi over Colon and Mahan, why I can’t believe Davis is starting over Kreider, why I am finding it hard to embrace Tomlin, why I am finding it hard to get excited about Arians’ offense.
Haver, to his credit, has been the exact opposite on many of these topics. He even alluded to as much, saying “I’m the type of person that if two things are equal then I’d rather keep a younger guy that potentially could be good than an older guy that will not get any better.”
As mentioned, I hope that Tomlin proves me wrong and has a great deal of success. The biggest misconception about all of this back-and-forth arguing is the fact that I am not in the least that upset about it. I realize that it may sound like I am “so mad,” but, in essence, I really don’t care as a real game as yet to be played; there’s no point in me getting upset about Kreider not starting until it factors a real game. This isn’t to say that I don’t care, as my opinions have clearly been stated…but I am just not as pissed off about any of this (the Barlow release included) as it may seem.
Raible
September 7, 2007
If Raibs is a big believer in the “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” mentality…then he should really be pissed about his flops!
How long does the discussion between Steelers OL and BACKUP RB’s have to go on? Seriously, Haynes, Barlow (fag), Davis, Russell….are backups. Until fast Willie goes down (god forbid) and they are forced to play one of these guys, it’s a moot point who they keep on the roster or what the pecking order is. No one is beating Willie anytime soon. How many times can you beat a dead horse?
One thing I want to share my opinion on….I don’t agree with Davis starting over Kreider. He hasn’t showed me enough. I’m not complaining in any way…as Haver said above does it really make a difference? Has any game been played? The only time it will make a difference is when he misses a crucial block, doesn’t pick up a blitz or fumbles. It may be unfair to him though that people will be looking for him to do all of the above mentioned things so they can say why wasn’t Kreider in there in the 1st place. I say start Kreider 1st game, GRADUALLY give the kid PT in spot situations and see how he does…if he earns his keep, so be it. Good for him.
Pittsburgh sports highlight of the day: Rally in the Valley, 8pm, Rec Hall, PENN STATE.
Kidding, it HAS to be the Littlefield firing. This will only be huge if they hire someone and give him the financial backing to right the ship. If they hire a figurehead who will only be a pawn of Nutting, then we’re back at square 1 again.
Does anyone in the Big (L)East have a defense? Sorry Wells…BEAST. Louisville almost shitting the bed against Mid Tenn St? (ala Michigan). For the record, I do not cheer against the Big East. Only Pitt.
Michigan doesn’t. (Am I allowed to talk about Michigan on here?)
I think Carey Davis is Havers love child. Just as POZ is mine! (and now Raibles!) Who wants a jersey?!?
FOREVERLINKEDTHRUPOZMEANDRAIBLE
yettipsu2003
September 7, 2007
Littlefield getting fired is both HUGE and SWEET! Hopefully, this is just step #1 in my plan of having everyone in the organization shit canned before next year.
Yetti hit the nail on the head (although I honestly don’t understand the “his flops” comment) in his post about Littlefield. However, I don’t think that this ownership group, headed by Nutting, is ever going to give the GM/CEO the financial backing to turn the Bucs into a winner. With that being said, there’s no reason why the Pirates can’t be as competitive as, say, the Brewers. Milwaukee is a small market that built its tied-for-1st-place team into a contender primarily from within. Although it can be argued that Littlefield was never given the money to do what was necessary, ol’ Dave still made some terrible decisions over the years.
Personally, I would love to see the Pirates bring in a “Moneyball” kind of guy. If we can’t compete financially with the big markets, and whatever system we are using now doesn’t seem to be working, then why not try something different? It certainly seems to have worked for Billy Beane. In fact, the guy that I would hire to run the Pirates as GM would be David Forst.
David Forst is in his seventh season with the Athletics and his third as assistant general manager. He was appointed to his current position in February of 2004 after serving as an assistant to the general manager and coordinator of professional scouting. His primary duties include assisting Billy Beane in all player acquisitions, contract negotiations and player evaluations. The 29-year old Forst graduated Cum Laude from Harvard University in 1998 with a bachelor of arts degree in sociology. He played baseball for the Crimson for four seasons and earned third team All-America honors as a senior in 1998.
Paul DePodesta could also be an option as the former Dodgers GM is simply serving as a special assistant for baseball operations for the San Diego Padres.
As for CEO, I don’t have a freakin’ clue. I mean, does it really even matter? As long as you had my boy Forst running the show as GM, I think they would be fine.
As for manager (assuming, hopefully, that Tracy gets canned), I am in favor of bringing in 1 of 3 men:
Joe Girardi – Did an awesome job with the young Marlins in his one and only season with Florida before being pushed out by upper management. Is currently the co-host of Behind The Plate and color commentator on the YES Network. Many opine that Girardi will be the next Yankees manager.
Art Howe – Born in the ‘Burgh, Howe served as manager of the “Moneyball” A’s from 1996-2002. Is currently the bench coach for the Texas Rangers. Signed his first playing contract with the Pirates in 1971 and came to the majors as a part-time player with Pittsburgh in 1974-75
Ken Macha – A graduate of Gateway High School in Monroeville (a suburb of the ‘Burgh), Macha is the managed the A’s from 2003-2006. Is currently a pre- and post-game analyst for New England Sports Network, which telecasts Boston Red Sox games. Was selected by the Pirates in the sixth round of the 1972 June draft.
Other possibilites could include Phil Garner (former Buc recently fired by the Houston Astros), Andy Van Slyke (former Buc and current first base coach for the Detroit Tigers), and Jay Bell (former Buc who retired as bench coach of the Arizona Diamondbacks after the 2006 season in order to spend more time with his family).
No matter what happens, the firing of Littlefield definitely has me excited about the possibilities that may exist.
Raible
September 7, 2007
Wow, I am a machine today…
Pitt athletic director Jeff Long is one of three finalists for the same position at the University of Arkansas, according to sources. Long has held the A.D. position since May 2003. He is in the last year of his contract and negotiated with the university earlier this year, but a deal was not reached. Long’s most prominent hired current football head coach Dave Wannstedt.
Not sure how I feel about this. Obviously the basketball program seems to be in good shape, and I am still convinced that Wanny can get the job done on the gridiron. I guess with that being said, it probably doesn’t even matter who the AD is at this point. One thing that could be sweet is, should Long leave, the script Pitt logo and old colors (items that Long shies away from) could return.
Raible
September 7, 2007
Here are my thoughts on the on-going discussions, as well as some of my basic philosophies:
STEELER COACHING HIRE: I was in favor of hiring Tomlin from around the time he was granted a 2nd interview and we started hearing good things about him from around the league. I have a basic philosophy that comes into play here. I believe it is better to draft/hire a man a year too early than to take the (seemingly) safe path. Had either taken over, the Steeler assistants were likely to keep the same systems and processes in place that have provided annual stability for a winning team. Tomlin on the other hand may turn out to be in over his head and this year. However, Whiz and Grimm have been interviewed and passed over repeatedly- they were the leftovers, albeit reasonable choices. They are both recognizable assistants on a winning team- in other words the guys who get the jobs by default when a change is made and there are no other striking options out there. Tomlin was also going to get a head job at some point, but the circumstances were much different. He was young man who was an unknown outside the NFL and he had certainly never been a visable assistant for a great franchise or legendary coach. In other words he wasn’t going to get hired because a losing team was hoping that the traditions and winning habits of succesful football people had rubbed off on him. There were qualities about him that made stand out, and not because he’d been around the interview block a hundred times or been televised up in the booth for 5 years of playoff games. He was on the table because he’s the man.
In my opinion our in-house candidates could have been counted on to lead the team adequately. I don’t think we’d have seen a clubhouse revolt, sloppy play, or awful game management. At the same time there are two factors that come into play. One, based on the team’s history this decision was made for the next decade-plus, not the next season. Two, we play to win championships here. If Tomlin has the talent for coaching, management and leadership that pretty much everyone who knows him believes he has, then he will be a great coach someday. And you win with greatness- in the trenches, on the sidelines, and in the front office. If you believe that Tomlin is likely to be great, and the facts tell me that he is all substance and zero fluff, then you need to accept the possibility that the Steelers may (*may*) sacrifice a year of consistent coaching from a veteran assistant to capture the upside of one of the hottest coaching prospects to come around in recent memory.
Being a long-standing assistant and a terrific head coaching prospect are not mutually exclusive. But in my opinion when it comes to the Steelers you give the benfit of the doubt unless you can raise legitimate doubts about a decision of which you have all the facts. At the end of the day why were Whiz and Grimm considered viable candidates? Because they were well-known , and by all appearances effective assistants on winning teams, and they had been that for a while. Why was Tomlin a viable candidate? The only thing I can come up with is that he must be the fuckin man.
STEELER POSITIONAL BATTLES: Absent other data I favor giving the starting spot to the veteran and the bench spot to the younger player. Veterans are likely to have a smaller gap between their well-defined ceiling or floor than a younger player, although that player’s ceiling has not been established and may be higher.
With that in mind, I’m comfortable with the decision to leave Townsend as a starter and I expect and welcome Clark as the starter on Sunday as well. Anthony Smith has made some big hits and other appealing athletic plays for us. Clark really hasn’t so for him to even be in the mix for the starting safety spot tells us something. He obviously executes his responsibilities consistently well. I believe that winning football is about sound schemes and precise execution, topped off by special plays made by rare athletes. A big part of examining a player is weighing the balance between his execution and his upside. At some positions and on some teams those factors might be weighed differently. Free saftey is a position where you want stability and the Steelers are a team that has playmakers. In this situation I think Smith needs to be pretty close to Clark in the dependability department to get the job. Townsend I feel less strongly about, mainly because McFadden is more proven than Smith, but corners and safeties are the guys that can lose close games for you.
At running back I’m puzzled by the decision to keep Kreider yet not start him. Perhaps it is just a cautious move made as insurance to Davis not holding up as advertised. While I liked Haynes and his proven 3rd down skills, and I believe that executing a blocking assignment by in a critical situation is one of the most overlooked jobs in football, I think he was a reasonable cut. His ceiling was well-established and if the coaches believed that they had other dependable options it’s hard to argue with going younger and cheaper. I think the Barlow cut was a no-brainer- he looked like Staley.
I’ll use this spot to point out that Arians concerns me a little. I like Ben’s involvement quite a bit, but I still don’t completely trust him. I know he’d love to throw every down and I think those goofy Ben plays that result in bizarre interceptions are more likely if he’s running the show more. I think Davis was named starter in part because he can catch the ball, and while I like that dimension of an offense I still think the run should be our foundation. When it starts on the ground I think Ben is more effective- and when he’s on he can be awesome. I’m pretty sure Holmes has a modest breakout this year by the way. Arians might be great and I’m sure there’s a fine counter-argument to all this, but it’s the one thing that I think could really de-rail us besides injury.
Colon over Starks I support but I wasn’t really fired up either way. The one thing I didn’t like about Starks were reports that he was a little soft while Colon is supposedly a beast. I think time will tell with this one- we won a Bowl with Starks so he can’t be that bad.
THE BUCS: I have practically given up on the Bucs but I just can’t. The Nuttings are know to be prudent businessmen so on one hand you’d like to think that once the trusted leadership is in place the money will follow, but that sounds a lot like wishful thinking. They have a few respectable pieces but they really need more legitimate players. This is all pretty obvious so I’ll stop.
PITT: Not much to say here. I grew up liking them. They blow.
THE PASSION: Did someone really type those two words?
thegreatawakening
September 7, 2007
Actually I am interested in the return of the script Pitt logo and the traditional colors. I hated that change.
thegreatawakening
September 7, 2007
Oh and as for the next Bucs manager- I really don’t want anyone with Buc or Pgh connections. Macha and Howe rode coat-tails. Van Slyke? VAN FUCKING SLYKE?
thegreatawakening
September 7, 2007
C’mon Dean: You know you can’t say that you don’t want anyone with Buc or Pgh connections and then not give a solution. While my list certainly wasn’t exhaustive, I would be interested to see who you come up with; 2 brains are surely better than 1.
Raible
September 7, 2007
From today’s Post-Gazette Q&A…
Question: Hasn’t Dan Krieder proven that not only can he block, but he can catch out of the backfield just as well as any of our Tight Ends? How hard is it to line him up as the third Tight End? Don’t we want the guy in there that makes Willie feel more comfortable and has proven himself?
BOUCHETTE: It’s a new offense with different formations and philosophy. Dan Kreider long ago proved himself as a blocker and coordinator Bruce Arians called him the best at it in the business this summer. But they have not used him much as a receiver (9 receptions last year for 62 yards, 59 catches in his seven-year career) or a rusher (one attempt last season, 30 in his career); they obviously determined neither of those is his strength. They believe Carey Davis can block, catch and run and gives them more versatility. Let’s see if they’re right.
Raible
September 7, 2007
Raibs face it, Pitt is a 3rd or 4th tier athletic program that AD’s and coaches use as a stepping stone to bigger and better things (Petersen-Nebraska, Howland-UCLA, soon to be Long-ARKANSAS?!?).
Bostick started to realize it, that’s why he left in camp. Only when Wanny promised him the shavings from his ’stache did he return.
yettipsu2003
September 7, 2007
Hahaha…if Pitt is a 3rd or 4th tier athletic program, and their basketball team is a 3rd or 4th tier program, then where in the hell does that put the mighty Penn State hoops program. About the 65th tier?
Raible
September 7, 2007
P.S. You know, Yetti, that you wanna see Pitt and Penn State start playing again.
Raible
September 7, 2007
I do want to see it started up again. It is absolutely horrible that they do not play. Some of it may be JoePa’s fault, but I’m not going to dislike the greatest coach in ncaa history because he holds a grudge against a Pitt team who did not want to join his All Eastern Athletic Conference 15-20 years ago.
As for basketball, I hate PSU basketball. Actually like Pitt. And an athletic program means more than just basketball. What has any other Pitt team in any sport done?
yettipsu2003
September 7, 2007
Greatest coach in NCAA history? I just puked in my mouth. Bobby Bowden has more wins, Bear Bryant has kicked more asses, and Steve Spurrier has fucked more bitches. And Pete Carroll is WAY sweeter!
-Pitt Baseball went 27-27 last year
-Pitt Basketball routinely goes to the NCAA Tournament
-Pitt Men’s Cross Country finished 6th in the NCAA Mid-Atlantic Regional Championships
-Pitt Football has won 9 national championships, boasts the greatest QB in history (Marino), the best RB in college history (Dorsett), the best WR in college history (Fitzgerald), and the best defensive player in college history (Hugh Green).
-Pitt Men’s Soccer went 5-11-2 last year
-Pitt Men’s Swimming and Diving went 7-5 last year
-Pitt Men’s Track and Field boasts Roger Kingdom, one of the best hurdlers in history
-Pitt Wrestling finished 4th at the EWL Championships last year and had the PA Wrestler of the Year (yep, from Pitt and not Penn State) in Keith Gavin
-Pitt Women’s Basketball went to the NCAA Tourney last year
-Pitt Women’s Cross Country finished 17th in the NCAA Mid-Atlantic Regional Championships
-Pitt Gymnastics finished 5th at the NCAA Regionals last year
-Pitt Women’s Soccer went 8-8-3 last year
-Pitt Softball went 23-35 last year
-Pitt Women’s Swimming and Diving went 9-3 last year
-Pitt Tennis went 10-7 last year
-Pitt Women’s Track and Field finished 2nd at the ECAC Championships last year
-Pitt Volleyball went 22-9 last year
Hey Dude, you asked.
Raible
September 7, 2007
Hopefully this doesn’t prolong the discussion but rather somewhat end it, but I wanted to speak for myself. It’s not that I really disagree with anything said, but it’s more of how it’s said that caused me to be upset or angry. Me and Raible disagree on things. Should be no big deal. Should be able to talk normally and discuss normally. Instead, things like (paraphrasing from memory) “Anyone that likes Russell and Davis over Barlow and Haynes are fucking morons”, “Starting Davis over Kreider is fucking stupid”, “This is fucking stupid and that is fucking stupid.” Well, based on the fact that I thought a lot of those things and that’s very apparent since I’ve written or talked about it, then I feel like I’m fucking stupid, I’m the fucking moron, and I’m really fucking stupid. I guess you can argue however you’d like, but I find it irritating that discussions lead to this type of wording. If you don’t mean it or have other intentions, then why say it? For effect? I don’t get it. There’s a ton of F bombs and the use of the N word on a site that Wells eats, sleeps and breaths, hoping that random people will take a look at and that his dad views as frequently as he can. I mean, I don’t counter back with “Anyone that likes Barlow’s parents should die” or “If you don’t like Carey Davis your house should blow up”. I also didn’t understand how the RB situation was the same as the O-line situation. It seemed like the same things were said about the RB position, and like I said, it’s not the topic but rather how everything was being said. As for the o-line, the stuff I said yesterday I only thought about yesterday so I don’t think it’s even possible that I ever discussed that topic previously. It was like just because I criticized the constant Barlow talk and everyone else being stupid, something that I brought up had to also be stupid. What I like about this site or discussing sports is being able to discuss civaly, open to others thoughts, and be able to take criticism. Now, yeah, I probably don’t criticism too well and you can say that if you want. But to throw all of these F bombs out there because someone might not like Kevan Barlow is ridiculous. Saying you’d like Barlow to be on the team because you are obsessed with Pitt players, wished he regained his old form, and are nervous about younger players sounds a little bit more reasonable. Now, I can’t tell people how to argue and everyone won’t argue like me but all of these harsh comments just really annoyed me. It’s the Steelers. We’re all fans. If I’m gonna give my opinion and then be called a fucking moron for kinda liking Gary Russell, it’s pretty pointless for me to give my opinion. If you don’t really mean what you are saying, then don’t say them, as there is no point.
Not really mad or anything. Just always like to be clear on why I was mad. If people can’t take criticism and be reasonable in a response there’s no point to this site for me. This doesn’t really need to be discussed any more. It’s just a website with a bunch of friends.
thav916
September 7, 2007
Haver: I never called you a fucking idiot, and I certainly didn’t mean to imply it. And I am sorry that I use the words “Fuck” and “Nigger” but they are words in our society…blame society, not me, but I just type what I feel. I love how it is awesome at times when I say how I feel about a topic, but one in which we disagree on or when I bring up anything negative about WVU I get reprimanded.
This whole fucking thing is pretty much fucking stupid. And, I didn’t realize that we needed to use PG-like words and phrases; with that in mind, I think that Kevan Barlow is totally gnarly, I think Gary Russell and Carey Davis are totally bogus, and I think that Mike Tomlin is “different.”
Hey, my feelings are hurt, too, when I read that the Allen Rossum trade was stupid. It made me go and cry myself to sleep. To read something was stupid that I didn’t think was stupid really makes me feel blue.
I can’t believe that this conversation is even still happening. I have known Haver my entire life and I have never known him to get emotionally upset about things that I say. Furthermore, I didn’t realize that this was 4th grade and we couldn’t use “big boy” words like the “F” and “N” words.
If Wells is upset about me using bad words or expressing my opinion, then so be it. I am done with all of this shit because, quite frankly, it is fucking retarded. I hope you all have thought-provoking, intelligent, let’s all give each other blowjobs conversations from this point on.
Cheers!
Raible
September 8, 2007
Raibs! The man! “Gnarly”
yettipsu2003
September 8, 2007
I know that I said I was done with everything, and I very may well still be, but I had to get a few things off my chest:
1. Look Haver, I’m sorry buddy if I upset you or hurt your feelings or whatever. I certainly didn’t mean to imply that you were stupid or whatever; I just get emotional and very opinionated about things. Furthermore, I am obviously stubborn and am unlikely to change my way of thinking. That being said, I apologize if I upset you or anyone else who comes on this site to read stuff.
2. Meanwhile, all of the Steelers talk, in my opinion, ended up pretty much being a moot point. Both Carey Davis and Dan Kreider played. Bryant McFadden didn’t start, but he did recover a fumble. Anthony Smith certainly got some PT, as did Max Starks. And, most importantly, the Steelers laid the smack down on the Browns. Mike Tomlin: Best coach ever?
3. Matt Hamill was absolutely robbed on Saturday night in his match with Michael Bisping. If that fight happens anywhere but Great Britain, Hamill wins relatively easily. I hope that Hamill gets another shot at Bisping, preferably in America, with some unbiased judging. Mirko Cro Cop, meanwhile, looks to be much ado about nothing. The Rampage-Henderson fight was relatively boring.
4. How good is the Winslow’s Division? 3 of the final 4!
5. I would have loved to have been at Lambeau today for the Packers-Eagles game. While this afternoon was simply a treat for me (Steelers on one TV, Packers on another, Pedro on the computer…followed by an exciting USA-Brazil match), the one thing that stood out was how Lambeau was simply rocking every time I tuned in to the game. Favre was simply Favre, making plays out of nothing, trying to force passes when he probably shouldn’t, and, in the end, winning…which he has done as often as any starting QB in history (his win today tied him with Elway for most by a QB of all time). The Packers are young (youngest team in the NFL, in fact), but with Favre and an emerging defense (plus a solid Donald Driver and a few potentially talented skilled players on offense) leading the way, the Packers have a real chance of making the playoffs.
I leave you all with the following…
Top 10 Reasons why Tim is simply Haver:
10. He was made by Suave and Bonnie.
9. He loves Max Starks.
8. He hates Kevan Barlow.
7. I’ve known him since 2nd grade.
6. He starred on GMA as a pre-teen.
5. He absolutely loves Julia Roberts (or at least used to).
4. His dad kept track of his b-ball stats…in 3rd grade.
3. HE eats, sleeps, and breathes this site.
2. He also eats, sleeps, and breathes CBS Sports.com.
1. I’m pretty sure he made Tomlin win today to shut me up!
Raible
September 10, 2007
Raible, fuck you. What kind of friend are you, anyway? I get a birthday card in the mail from Scott Ross and you don’t even acknowledge it. You know what? Im so pissed I’m not going halfsies on Yeager’s gift this year. Yeah, that’s right, you’re on your own. By the way, Bisping dominated and Kongo is small.
thav916
September 11, 2007
Should we change the name of this page from Burgh to Dirty Laundry?
pmryder
September 12, 2007
Back to PG rated Steelers talk.
Don’t like to overanalyze the game against the Browns because clearly not every game will be against the Browns. With that said, we could have barely beat them or dominated them and it’s certainly nicer to dominate. The thing I do like to take is something bigger than the actual specific plays or players. It’s My Steelers Recipe For Success
1. Use all the weapons on offense-Ward and Holmes are not guys that will catch 90 balls a year. Our WR core isn’t deep. But, with Parker and Najeh at RB; Heath, Tuman and Spaeth at TE; and Wilson and Washington rounding out the WRs we have 9 guys that can be effective in the passing game. Guys might only have 1, 2 or 3 catches a game or even every other game, but they can all be useful.
Against the Browns-6 people caught the 12 passes. Heath led us with 4 catches. 4 different guys caught TD passes.
2. Similar strategy on defense-We don’t have a LB or two that can get 12-15 sacks. But, we have a lot of players that can get to the QB. Our depth is good at all levels and our scheme is perfect for blitzers coming from anywhere and everywhere. I’d love to see something like 5 guys get 5 sacks or more and another 3 guys get 3 sacks.
Against the Browns-We had 6 sacks by 6 different players. 1 from the DL, 3 from the LBs, and 2 from the DBs.
3. Let Ben be a star….throw to get the lead, run to preserve the lead-I think Ben can be as good as any QB in the league not named Peyton or Tom. He’s back this year and can do more than just “manage” the team.
Against the Browns-People see the box score and see 42 runs and 23 passes. But that doesn’t tell the real story. When the game was basically over we had 14 runs and 16 passes. We finished with something like 18 or 19 runs. Whether it’s Tomlin, Cowher, Noll or Raible coaching, that’s the Steelers bein the Steelers.
These are my 3 recipes for Pittsburgh Steelers success. We’re not going to be able to dominate every game like our first but I do think the groundwork has been laid to continue doing these 3 things for a successful year.
thav916
September 13, 2007
A good day for shady, but sPitt can’t pull it out against a bottom-feeder Big Ten team.
GREAT JOB WANNY!
the yetti
September 15, 2007
Hahahaha….
Pitt’s Levance Fields tasered outside of nightclub
Sunday, September 16, 2007
By Ray Fittipaldo, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
A Pitt basketball player had to be tasered outside a Strip District nightclub early this morning after he attempted to grab a police officer’s weapon.
Levance Fields was charged with one count each of aggravated assault, disarming a police officer, disorderly conduct and public drunkeness.
The incident took place at 1:50 a.m. at Pure nightclub. According to a police affadavit, an officer working an off-duty detail at Pure spotted Mr. Fields yelling at another police officer. The police officer approached Mr. Fields and asked him to stop yelling and using offensive language.
Mr. Fields then went into the street and began arguing with an unknown black male. The officer approached Mr. Fields again and repeated his request that he stop yelling and using offensive language, at which time Mr. Fields cursed at the officer and struck him in the chest.
Mr. Fields then grabbed at the officer’s weapon. The officer pushed him away, and a security officer shot Mr. Fields in the chest with a taser.
Mr. Fields, 20, was taken to Mercy Hospital before being locked up in the Allegheny County Jail.
Mr. Fields, a 5-foot-10, 195-pound native of Brooklyn, N.Y., and a starter at point guard since his freshman season, led Pitt in assists last season and was the team’s fourth-leading scorer with 9.2 points per game.
Sad thing is, I am a fan of Pitt basketball. I would def. go to town if it was a Pitt football player. Damn!
p.s. he is only 20…he’s in a nightclub.
yettipsu2003
September 17, 2007
Let’s talk some Buccos baseball heading into next year…
I am going to assume that the organization does not wade into the Free Agency pool and bring in anyone of substance. With that in mind, here is what I am looking at:
Catcher: Somewhat quietly, Ronny Paulino has managed to turn his season around, upping his average to its current .263 clip. 11 HR, 54 RBI, and 53 Runs Scored. His defense is still suspect, but he’s probably the best option we have. Ryan Doumit could also push for the starting spot or, at the least, serve as Paulino’s backup.
1st Base: Like Paulino, Adam LaRoche turned it on after it stopped counting, upping his average to its current .273 clip. 21 HR, 84 RBI, and 68 Runs Scored. He is most definitely the major power source in the lineup and is sure to bat 3rd or 4th.
2nd Base: Simply put, Freddy Sanchez is the best player on the team. .308, 11 HR, 79 RBI, 77 Runs Scored. To boot, Freddy’s glovework has consistently improved through the course of the season (hey, he’s no Brandon Phillips…but who is?).
Shortstop: In what I consider to be some great news, the Post-Gazette is reporting today that Cesar Izturis will not have his club option exercised. What this means is that the heart and soul of the Bucs, Jack Wilson, should maintain his grip on the SS job. .295, 12 HR, 56 RBI, 66 Runs Scored. Jack’s glovework is obviously solid, too. Brian Bixler is a kid down in AAA Indianapolis who is the future at the position and has a shot at unseating Jack.
3rd Base: Call me crazy, but I am still a fan of Jose Bautista. .258, 15 HR, 61 RBI, 71 Runs Scored, and a pretty solid glove. Around these parts, there is a lot of talk of trying to move Xavier Nady to the hot corner to make room for Steve Pearce, which would Jon Frank-ly shock me. The future of the position, no matter what they deicde, rests in the hands of Pine Richland’s own Neil Walker.
Left Field: Jason Bay had been our best player until Freddy burst onto the scene last season. While Bay has had a down year (.251, 21 HR, 84 RBI, 78 Runs Scored), he is certain to start in LF next year and bat somewhere in the heart of the order (you’d love to see him cement himself as the #3 hitter). There are some rumors going around, however, that Bay could be shopped this offseason.
Center Field: Probably the most intriguing positional battle on the team. The future (and, if I had my way, the present) of this position is Andrew McCutcheon, considered by many to be the top prospect in the Pirates farm system. However, Pirates brass could decide that it is a year too early for him. If that occurs, then the position should be filled by either Nyjer Morgan (.242, 0 HR, 3 RBI, 9 Runs Scored, 4 SB), Nate McLouth (.254, 12 HR, 34 RBI, 59 Runs Scored, 20 SB), or Chris Duffy (.249, 3 HR, 22 RBI, 31 Runs Scored, 13 SB). All three play pretty solid defense, but if I had my pick of the three, it would be McLouth.
Right Field: The X-Man, Xavier Nady, has been solid when healthy this season: .286, 18 HR, 67 RBI, 53 Runs Scored. As enticing as Pearce looks, I think that Nady is a shoo-in to start next year.
Starting Pitchers: Ian Snell (9-12, 3.83 ERA) and Tom Gorzelanny (14-8, 3.55 ERA) are the rocks of the rotation. You can expect Matt Morris (9-10, 4.84 ERA) and his inflated salary to be the #3 or #4 starter. Also sure to be in the mix is Paul Maholm (10-15, 4.76 ERA). The #5 starter’s job should come down to one of the following: Zach Duke (3-7, 5.70 ERA), Bryan Bullington (0-2, 6.55 ERA), John Van Benschoten (0-6, 10.06 ERA), and Shane Youman (3-5, 6.41 ERA). The guess here is that Duke reclaims his spot, but the competition should be good for all.
Relief Pitchers: Nothing to really get excited about, or care about, here other than Matt Capps is sure to be the closer (4-7, 2.37 ERA, 17 Saves).
As I have previously stated, I hope that the Pirates hire David Forst as the GM (looking unlikely), fire manager Jim Tracy, and replace Tracy with someone like Art Howe, Ken Macha, or Phil Garner (would LOVE Joe Girardi, but I don’t see that happening).
When it’s all said and done, I see the Bucs looking like:
1. McLouth – CF
2. Sanchez – 2B
3. LaRoche – 1B
4. Nady – RF
5. Bay – LF
6. Bautista – 3B
7. Paulino – C
8. Wilson – SS
1. Gorzelanny
2. Snell
3. Morris
4. Maholm
5. Duke
Closer: Capps
Bench: Doumit
Bench: Phelps
Bench: Pearce
Not sure who else will make up the bullpen, and really don’t care anyway. Should be interesting to see if Jose Castillo comes back to serve as the infield backup. I think that the club will look to get Pearce as many AB as possible coming off the bench at 1B and RF, although they may elect to send him back to AAA (with McCutcheon, Walker, and Bixler) and bring all of their prized prospects to the big leagues in 2009.
Raible
September 20, 2007
Agree with a lot of Raiblisms. First things first, I think that should be a word. Second, I think one of the first things he said is true and therefore sucks. The Succos probably won’t do much in free agency so we’re left with basically breaking down exactly what we have.
I have no type of statistical analysis to prove this but I feel like all we need is a combined 100 points higher in the batting averages and a combined 2.00 Era lower and we’d make serious noise. If that’s not clear, what I mean is give me 35 points added to Bay’s average, 20 to whoever is in CF, 10 to Paulino, 15 to Bautista and give or take 5 points for every other starts. That’s 100 points. Break it down even further and that’s roughly 80 more hits or 1 more hit every two games. If that happened, look at what Raible’s lineup would suddenly look like
1. McLouth-.274
2. Sanchez-.313
3. LaRoche-.278
4. Nady-.291
5. Bay-.286
6. Bautista-.273
7. Paulino-.273
8. Wilson-.300
It’s funny how little has to happen for our lineup to look that good.
Do similar things with the starting rotation lowering each pitcher’s ERA slightly and you’d see a very nice improvement.
Is it really THAT much to ask for
1. Snell-3.58
2. Gorzo-3.25
3. Morris-4.44
4. Maholm-4.22
5. Duke-5.20
Why won’t this all happen? Because they are the Pirates.
Since I agreed with so many Raiblisms, I’ll try to mention some things I think.
Duffy should not be in the picture. McLouth has been solid, Nyjer makes a Web Jem every night, and I’m a huge McCutchen believer as well. Duffy should be gone.
Jack Wilson ended up with a great season but I’m not nearly as big of a fan as Raibs. I do think he’d be a great piece to have if we were serious about making some moves and signed a bigtime 3B and top 3 starter. But I don’t think we’re doing either. Based on that and other circumstances that make us the Pittsburgh Pirates, I say trade Wilson for whatever you can get and go with Bixler next year.
I think the Pirates should be less afraid to platoon. I think they should go to a full fledge platoon with Nady and someone else (McLouth, Doumit, etc) in Right Field. Always seems like they want a starter. Would be nice if we had Vlad Guerrero out there, but we don’t. I’d also be perfectly fine with Pearce in RF and Nady not even on the team, for the same reasons as Jack Wilson.
Fine with Bautista but would love if Walker was the starting 3B. Bautista seems like he can play about every position and could be a nice bench player if this happened.
Not only because I had them in fantasy but Im really pumped LaRoche and Sanchez ended up with huge seasons. I was happy we made the LaRoche trade and a power hitting first baseman is crucial to a team. I mean, if your 1B sucks, it’s not a good start, as it’s about the easiest position in the game to hit from. More consistency is important from LaRoche next year, though. As for Sanchez, not only do I just really like him, but he was our All-Star and really shouldn’t have been. I worried that he’d even do a little worse after the all-star break and you’d look at the end of the year and he’d get criticized for being our All-Star even though it clearly wasn’t his fault he was selected. He decided instead, to be one of the 20 best players in the Major Leagues after the All-Star break.
Once again, all the Pirates need to do is be 70-70 with 22 games left in the season. You finish hot and go 16-6 and you might win the division. You get cold and finish 6-16 and at least you were in the race all season long. The whole reason I’m optimistic about the Pirates is because of the division they play in. If they were in the AL East they’d basically have zero chance to ever survive and might as well fold. But they’re in the NL Central. I also agree with people that think they might not be able to stay good, but completely disagre with anyone that doesn’t think they could be good for a year or two. The Pirates problem SHOULD be that all of their young talent is great and then leaves for greener pastures. Let’s just say this is the least of their worries right now.
Maybe we can get Raible’s BOY Mike Tomlin to be the manager?!?!?!?
thav916
September 21, 2007
I’m going to address the Bucs I guess. There’s very little to say that isn’t obvious.
It’s pretty clear by now that every baseball organization is capable of putting a contending team out there- and it often happens out of nowhere. The Marlins have rollercoastered from top to bottom twice, Detroit essentially went from worst to first in a year, the Rockies just made the playoffs, and in these and other cases like them, we’re usually not forewarned the year before by improving play. So, every offseason we Bucs fans try to figure out what our best-case-scenario is. Because we realize that yes, if everything breaks right, we will make a run. That’s how baseball has been going.
Every year you hear conversations like this at the bar:
“If LaRoach and Wilson hit like they did after _____, and Doumit stays healthy, and Bay gets back into ____-form, and can hit at least ___, and we sign one decent free agent pitcher, and continue to improve………………..we might be okay.”
Way too many “ands” and not enough “ors”.
I was in the lockerroom after a workout the other day (I’m not kidding, I joined the club the rich people in my town belong to in hopes of scoring some clients without doing any work AND getting into shape) and this guy starts listing a bunch of Bucs, followed by a pause, and then, “…you tellin’ me you can’t win with him as your starting ___?”
And he was right- you could win with Nady in right. Or Wilson at short. Or LaRoach at first.
The problem is that you can’t win with ALL of them. Nady would look pretty good playing right and hitting 7th for the Phillies, who have MVP candidates at first, second and short, plus Rowand and Burrell in the outfield. Wilson would be nice on the Yankees, playing next to A-Rod in a lineup with 8 all-stars. And LaRoche was a pretty nice piece in Atlanta, where he cleaned up the leftovers hitting behind Renteria, Chipper, Andruw, McCann, and Francouer.
The bottom line is that our entire lineup is made up of fringe players. Hitting 20 and driving in 80 might sound like decent production, but actually it’s the absolute minimum contending teams get from the WORST of their four corner regulars. And even then the guy’s probably in a partial platoon. Driving in 80 with regular, middle-of-the-order at-bats is not success- it’s the inevitable accumulation of stats you get when you flail at enough pitches with guys on.
I think about it this way. If the Pirates were contending with the Phillies for the wild card this year, here’s what we’re up against: Rollins, Utley, and Rowand combined this year for 210 extra-base hits, 79 of them homers, 56 stolen bases, and 286 RBI, with each hitting between .296 and .332. And these guys played the positions that teams like the Pirates invariably fill with steady defenders who we hope will get a few singles and doubles. Freddy Sanchez, our steadiest player and second baseman, hit .304 with 11 homers out of his 57 extra-base hits. Our other guys up-the-middle aren’t as good. To field a lineup comparable to Philadelphia, we need to out-produce them at the corners by as much as they outproduce us up the middle. Unfortunately they have Ryan Howard. If you look around the NL you see the same thing everywhere. JJ Hardy, Hanley Ramirez, Jose Reyes, Dan Uggla, Edgar Renteria, etc. etc. etc. put up better numbers than Jason Bay and Xavier Nady.
So………what’s our best case scenario? It looks like we are going to have to live with our up-the-middle gap indefinitely (and McCutcheon might be good, but please). And we’re never going to fully bridge that gap on the corners with Fielder, Wright, Aramis (ouch), etc. all playing in other uniforms. This leaves us where we already knew we were- in need of a *great* rotation and bullpen. *Great* is the key word, but like I said we already knew that, and more importantly it’s still unlikely to be enough. I think it’s much more reasonable to commit to mantaining a good, solid staff and then revisit the bat gap.
If you stockpile enough arms in your system you should be able to maintain a servicable rotation and bullpen with a minor signing or two. Innings-eater starters and relief pitching are the positions where you get the least bang for your free agent investment. We bring up off-the-wall relievers every year and they do fine- it’s the lone area where this team is efficient. But we squander that advantage by hiring guys like Armas and Randa to be baseball players. We need to eliminate all of that garbage spending, including keeping on our own mediocre players as their salaries grow.
Then, WE HAVE FIND A STICK, or sticks, that can make a difference. I define “difference-maker” as someone who provides an obvious and signifcant advantage at his position against nearly every opponent. Since the elite middle infielders never sniff the open market, we have to go get a corner player or two that can bash. My plan if I were GM would be to do this now. If I couldn’t make it happen this year, my plan would be to sign absolutely no one and pile away the unsquandered money for a huge deal a few years from now, at which point I would ask for enough of a payroll increase to make that *two* huge deals. Defer those dollars until you can land the sticks. I don’t care if it’s not until 2015.
(blah blah blah all our eggs in one basket…what if the free agents bust? Then I guess we’ll suck for a few years.)
The second thing I think we need are balls. The balls to actually sell our productive players high before they either crash back to earth or become expensive. Gorz and Snell are cheap right now, but they are also our only trading chips. I’m not advocating an immediate trade, but they are definitely not untouchable. I remember Zach Duke and Oliver Perez. UNTOUCHABLE!!!…..then they sucked. Gorz and Snell are different? Maybe. But I trade them for a proven (as in good for more than one year) stick if his salary is correct.
That’s all I have to say. The Pirates suck. They have almost no good prospects. They seem to have one strength- a decent pipeline of cheap relief pitching. They have thrown away millions on trash free agents who carry with them zero hope of helping us win. Now it’s possible that we have to spend a certain amount of our welfare check on big-league payroll. If so, sign or trade for a big stick. If not, sign or trade for a big stick. Otherwise we have no hope.
thegreatawakening
October 3, 2007
Great input from Dean on the Buccos.
As for the Steelers, I feel like a few items need to be pointed out after Sunday’s debacle…
-The Offensive Line looked like swiss cheese, with Ben constantly being pressured and the running game never getting going.
-Except for the INT in the end zone, I thought Ben played a pretty solid game.
-That team missed Hines Ward on Sunday. A lack of perimiter blocking, a lack of a go-to-guy (you just knew that Whiz knew that 3rd down pass was going to Miller in the end zone), and a lack of passion on the offensive side of the ball.
-It sucked that Troy had a tummy ache, that Casey pulled a hammy, and that B-Mac left the field on a cart. The defensive effort was less than inspiring, allowing Kurt Warner to lead the team on a TD drive. And we clearly didn’t have an answer for Fitzgerald; could you imagine what they would have done to us if Boldin had played?
-What happened to the improved Special Teams play? While Sepulveda and Reed continue to dominate, that punt return for TD was completely unacceptable, especially after a penalty that forced Sepulveda to kick again. Breaston is amazing, though (Woody High!).
And, now, for a couple of issues that may cause a bit of a ruckus (I promise that I am not bringing them up to cause a stir; I’m only simply making an observation and hope to have an intelligent and insightful conversation about it)…
-The fact that we had 1st and goal from inside the 5 and couldn’t score is pathetic. They bring in Kreider, yet don’t run behind him. That’s pointless. And Willie just doesn’t seem to have that nose for the endzone. If Najeh is going to be the big back, then why didn’t he get a shot? And what about Gary Russell in a situation like that? If you kept him, why not use him (I understand that he was probably not in uniform). Maybe they should have kept Barlow, eh? LOL!!!
-Plain and simple, Mike Tomlin got outcoached on Sunday by Ken Whisenhunt, a man that was strongly considered to be the replacement for Bill Cowher. Someone (I think Ed Bouchette) put it perfectly: He said something like the term “outcoached” is so cliche. If a coach wins, he outcoaches the other coach; if the coach loses, he gets outcoached. And, in essence, he is right. But that’s the point…Whisenhunt beat Tomlin, and thus, outcoached him. Now, if you want to further break it down, you have to like what Whiz did with his offense (successfully rotating Warner and Leinart), the pressure he brought with his defense, and the fact that he seemed to adjust during the game while Tomlin really had no answers (particularly with the running game). Am I saying that we should have hired Whiz instead of Tomlin? No (Well, you know I would prefer him…but that’s old news). But the two are going to be compared for as long as both are in the league, and at this juncture, Whisenhunt holds the advantage.
-The overall feeling that I have after Sunday’s game is that the Steelers played pretty poorly yet still almost won the game, which is encouraging. Even more encouraging is the fact that the team is still 3-1 after 4 games, with a 1-game lead over the rest of the division. Better yet, only New England and Indianapolis have looked considerably better than the Steelers to this point, meaning that we should have a real shot and getting back to the Playoffs and making some noise.
Raible
October 3, 2007
There really is no better formula for the Pirates than to have a $20 million payroll for 5 straight years and then have a $120 million payroll for 1 year, and then trade everyone in the offseason for more prospects and another 5 years at $20. No better.
While my suggestion that each player just does a little better will never happen, I don’t see how suddenly adding David Ortiz to the middle of the Pirates lineup is any more likely.
I agree with a whole lotta things Deano and Raibs have said. Agree with everything I’ve said. But basically, what needs to happen is that the Pirates need to get lucky. Whether it’s luck in the draft, luck with a trade, or luck on a signing, they have to get lucky. Because you see these other teams do it and because we’re not in a division with the Yankees and Red Sox and because we draft in the top 10 every year it should happen. Will it? Probably not.
Raibs even acknowledged it, but there’s nothing more than I dislike than when people say one coach outcoached the other. I can’t disagree any more. But we’re all entitled to our own opinions and I realize some people like to make that a big deal.
I don’t like the comment that other than the interception Ben played well. That pass costed the Steelers the game.
O-line was atrocious.
Great point about Boldin. Everyone in town just likes to talk about “What if” we had all of our guys healthy but fail to mention no Boldin.
If Kreider is on the team, please run behind him on 1st and goal.
Not disagreeing with any reasons stated above but I personally think the main reason they missed Wines Hard is because it meant more Nate Washington.
People overanalyze every game. Basically at the end of the season you’ll look back and be able to really evaluate. If the Cards is a start of bad play and a few straight losses, it is a huge loss and horrible. If they beat Seattle and continue playing well, it’s no big deal.
thav916
October 4, 2007
Your not going to beat every team you’re supposed to beat in the NFL. If you’re a 7-point favorite every week, your moneyline is probably gonna be around -250 to -300. So in the long run the odds are that 7-point favorites only win 5 out of 7 or 6 out of 8.
When the Steelers play 4 teams in a row that they are better than, you really can’t expect them to win more than 3 games. Last week we went on the road without our best receiver, faced a team who won’t be more fired up or better prepared all year, gave up a 2nd chance punt return, threw a pick in the endzone, and lost by a touchdown. History shows that if you play four games you’re supposed to win something like this is going to happen once.
This is what a normal season looks like for a good team. You are a nice favorite in 8 games. You win 6. You are a small favorite in 5 games. You win 3. You play 3 games as an underdog. You win 1. You go 11-5. A little luck either way and you’re 10-6 or 12-4.
As far as being out-coached…..
-I did notice that the Cards seemed to pick up our blitzes very well, which could be familiarity with our schemes.
-I like Arians offensive diversity, but when it’s time to pound it I don’t like the weird formations and runs. There’s still a place and time for the 2-tight I and it’s at the 4 on every down.
-Other than that we were a little flat and made more mistakes than they did. That was enough to keep it close. Two big plays go the wrong way and we lose. I don’t think it’s any more complicated than that. If we squeak out a sloppy win nobody’s talking about being outcoached.
Every year we lose a game to a lame team, but I really didn’t want it to be the Cards this year. We’re probably going to lose another one like that, and it’ll be annoying again, but we’re still going to win the division.
thegreatawakening
October 4, 2007
Good stuff Deano.
I absolutely love Tomlin and how he handles himself. I think his answers (and shades) are outstanding. Love his demeanor.
I also love Whisenhunt. I favored him greatly to Grimm. Whiz had some great comments last week, about our tight ends and then mocking Denny Green, and I think he also has all the makings of a great head coach.
I think they both will be successful head coaches.
thav916
October 4, 2007
I hated the sunglasses; is Tomlin too cool for school or something, wearing sunglasses in a domed stadium? That was gay. I also think that he sounds like a ‘ger, which makes sense because he is one. Of course, this is all predicated on the fact that I don’t like Mike Tomlin, which has tirelessly been stated on this website time and time again.
Ken Whisenhunt is totally tits.
Raible
October 5, 2007
The Buccos are cleaning house baby!!!
The Pirates today fired manager Jim Tracy after two losing seasons, as well as director of baseball operations Jon Mercurio, director of player development Brian Graham and scouting director Ed Creech. The next manager will be the Pirates’ 38th overall and the fifth in the 11 years since Jim Leyland left in 1996.
And let the speculation begin on who that manager might be…
Gene Collier has already penned a column for the Post Gazette’s website, and he is throwing out the name of Tony Pena. Pena, a former Pirate, certainly experienced some success as manager of fellow doormat Kansas City, taking a 7-game lead into the 2003 All-Star break before settling into a third-place finish in the American League Central Division with a record of 83-79. He currently is a coach on the New York Yankees.
Other names sure to be thrown out there include:
-Joe Girardi, Ken Macha, and Art Howe (scroll up this page to read my comments about each of them from a few weeks ago)
-Phil Garner: A former Pirate, Garner led the Houston Astros to the World Series in 2005. He was manager of the Astros from July 14, 2004 to August 27, 2007, when he was fired along with General Manager Tim Purpura. He is currently living in Daly City, California as a post office accountant.
-Jeff Datz/Joel Skinner: Datz, the Bench Coach of the Cleveland Indians, and Skinner, the 3rd Base Coach of the Indians, are sure to draw some interest from new GM Neal Huntington, who worked as a Special Assistant to the General Manager for the Indians prior to coming to Pittsburgh. Datz replaced Grady Little on March 20, 2002 after Little was named Manager of the Boston Red Sox, while Skinner, the more likely choice of the two, served as interim manager during the second half of the 2002 season, replacing Charlie Manuel on July 11, 2002 after Manuel was relieved of his duties after the All-Star Break.
And some other guys who could get some consideration:
-Larry Bowa: Former Phils manager and current Yanks 3rd base coach
-Dale Sveum: Former Pirate and current Brewers bench coach
-Alan Trammell: Former Tigers manager and current Cubs bench coach
-Kirk Gibson: Diamondbacks bench coach
-Carlos Garcia: Former Pirate and current M’s 3rd base coach
-Carlos Tosca: Former Jays manager and current Marlins bench coach
-Jerry Manuel: Former White Sox manager and current Mets bench coach
-Jimy Williams: Former manager and current Phils bench coach
-Trent Jewett: Current Pirates AAA manager
-Joey Cora: Current White Sox bench coach
I know that Dean doesn’t necessarily want a Pirate guy and would prefer an up-and-coming coach, which I can’t say that I necessarily disagree with. With that in mind, and with Huntington now in charge, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Skinner as the new man in charge. He is only 46, has some major league managing experience (albeit briefly), has extensive minor league managing experience (spent 6 seasons managing in the Indians system and took his team to the playoffs in 5 of those seasons), and obviously has the Indians connection working for him. In 2000, he managed the AAA Buffalo Bisons to the best record in the International League and an IL North Division title with a record of 86-59 (.593). His leadership of the Bisons earned him Minor League Manager of the Year honors from Baseball America and The Sporting News in addition to being given International League Manager of the Year honors. He was also a coach for Team USA in the 2000 All-Star Futures Game in Atlanta.
Raible
October 5, 2007
Hoss also loved the shades!!!! Just amusing to me how me and Raible even completely disagree on freakin sunglasses, basically illustrating our complete different opinions for the Steelers in a nutshell.
Thank God Tracy is gone. Neal “Don’t call me North” Huntington is already the man.
thav916
October 6, 2007
This is to all the Pitt fans (ok basically Raibs)
I’m gonna go out on a limb and assume you’re not thrilled with Wannstadt so far. Now obviously next year will be huge, but nonetheless some of these losses just can’t make ya happy. I’ve personally in the past thought Wanny was the man that would turn the Panthers around. Now I question if he’ll set the table for “the next guy” to turn it around. But here’s my question for you. Or maybe just an interesting scenario or situation. I heard it recently and kinda elaborated. What do you think of keeping Wannstadt and getting rid of Cavanaugh and Roades and getting a whole new staff. Basically, the theory here would be that Wanny is a great recruiter and it’s gonna be tough to get someone in that can recruit Western PA better than he can. Talent is the number 1 thing in college football. Wannstadt gets the players in, but he surrounds himself with better coaches, who can take a little more of the actual in game responsibilities.
I thought it was an interesting theory. Even if you like Roades and Cavanaugh, please just assume that you could do better and even if you think it’s impressive please don’t bring up that Cavanaugh won a Super Bowl in the NFL with the Dilfer-led Ravens.
Thoughts?
thav916
October 13, 2007
Replacing Rhaods and Cavanaugh is pretty much the only thing that Wanny can do to save his job. As you mentioned, Wanny is a great recruiter. But the guy just doesn’t get it done on game day, and that may or may not be a result of the play calling by his coordinators. The fact of the matter is that I can’t imagine that he gets fired after this year, no matter how bad it is, namely for the fact that there isn’t an AD in place right now to make that decision. However, I would be shocked and pissed if the University didn’t demand that he alter his coaching staff.
Another interesting scenario I recently heard has Wannstedt resigning as Head Coach to take over as AD. Now, I have no idea how good of an AD he would be. But, the way I see it, he can’t be any worse of an AD than he is a Head Coach.
I agree that it is quite possible that it will be the next guy, and preferably someone who is not a “Pitt” guy, that is the one to return the program to prominence…or at least to Walt Harris-level success. Clearly, Wannstedt has some nice pieces in place. But, to be honest, I don’t think he has a clue what to do with them.
Raible
October 13, 2007
Nothing got this board going like the Steelers talk before the season began. Now, during their Bye week, I figured it would be a good time to take an analytical look at where the Steelers are right now…
Record: 4-1 (1st place in AFC North)
-It’s hard to make predictions in the parity-driven NFL, but looking at the team’s remaining schedule, I think that 12-4 is certainly attainable. The Steelers have only played the Browns in-division, but I think that, after the start each team has had, anything less than an AFC North Division Title would be a dissapointment. To boot, the Steelers have established themselves, at least to this point in the season, as one of the Top 5 teams in all of football and a legitimate Super Bowl contender.
Coach Mike Tomlin
-No one was (or still is, for that matter) more critical of this guy than me, but I am forced to give credit where credit is due. The only thing that matters is that his team is 4-1; the shades, the dialect, the coaching staff…none of that matters so long as the team continues to win. ESPN.com’s SportsNation has a running approval ratings poll that has Tomlin sitting atop the NFL with an 85% approval rating. 3,326 Steelers fans of voiced their opinions on the matter, so obviously the guy is doing something right. The loss to Ken Whisenhunt and the Cardinals was tough, though (I HAD to throw at least one jab in there).
Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger
-It looks like Steelers fans have been blessed with the Ben of old thus far, with Roethlisberger compiling a 99.2 QB rating (good enough for 6th in the league). More importantly, last year’s league leader in INT has taken better care of the ball, as evidenced by his 3 INT in 5 games. Outside of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, can you say, for sure, that you would rather have any other QB in the league right now?
Running Back Willie Parker
-Fast Willie has run his way to the top of the NFL, leading the league with 507 rushing yards. While Willie is still most dangerous in the open field, his most impressive game might have been last week’s win over Seattle, where Parker seemed to gain the necessary tough yards throughout the course of the game. That Najeh Davenport is proving to be the complimentary back that we were looking for (OBVIOUSLY not as good as Barlow would have been) is just icing on the cake.
Wide Receivers
-Hines Ward continues to be the heart and soul of the WR corps, but it appears that he has been replaced as the team’s most dangerous aerial weapon; Santonio Holmes leads the club with 285 yards and 3 TD. Last week, the Steelers passing attack looked as good as it has all season…without both Ward and Holmes in the lineup. In their stead, no one stepped up more so than Cedrick Wilson, who reeled in 5 catches for 69 yards.
Tight Ends
-While Holmes leads the team in receiving yards, it is a TE, Heath Miller, that leads the team in receptions (17). In Ward’s absence, Miller has taken over as Ben’s favorite target. In addition to Ward, both Matt Spaeth (2) and Jerame Tuman (1) have found the end zone.
Offensive Line
-The play of the O-Line has been up and down; the team pretty much just dominated both sides of the ball in wins over Cleveland and Buffalo, while the O-Line seemed overmatched at times against San Francisco, Arizona, and Seattle. The unit should continue to play solid, but a major dissapointment for this proud group had to have been what occurred this past Sunday. On the Steelers’ opening drive of the 2nd half, the team was forced to march 110 yards to paydit…due in large part to penalties committed by the O-Line.
Kicker Jeff Reed
-Reed is 8th in the NFL in points (42) and has yet to miss a kick. I’d say he’s doing just fine.
Defensive Line
-The Steelers haven’t given up a 100-yard rusher in about 35 years, so I’d say that the play of the D-Line has continued its success.
Linebackers
-The best player thus far on the Steelers defense has been captain James Farrior, who surprisingly has 4 sacks to go with his 26 tackles. The rest of the corps is simply stellar.
Defensive Backs
-Ike Taylor seems to have rediscovered what got him that big pay raise before last year, becoming the shut-down CB that the team desperately needs. Taylor, the reigning AFC Defensive Player of the Week, leads the team with 2 INT. Troy Polamalu has been hurt the last 2 games, and I’d still like to see more from Bryant McFadden, himself a recent injury casualty.
Punter Daniel Sepulveda
-Do the Steelers have the best Kicker/Punter combo in the league or what? Not only do I have man-crushes on both Reed and Sepulveda (they’re both built bigger than they should be), but they are both producing very nicely. Sepulveda is 10th in the NFL in punting with an average of 45 yards per kick, including exactly half of his kicks (11) being downed inside the 20.
Returner Allen Rossum
-Tomlin made the trade at the last minute to bring in Rossum, and it paid immediate dividends in the form of a Kickoff Return for TD against San Francisco in Week 3. Noy only did Rossum account for 6 points on the play, but he seemed to energize both his team and the crowd on the play. While Willie Reid may have been capable of having the same impact as Rossum has had, you have to be impressed with this guy so far; only Leon Washington has been a better Kickoff Return guy than Rossum thus far. Rossum’s Punt Return average of 4.2 yards per return leaves a bit to be desired, though.
All in all, what can you say. The Black and Gold seemed poised to give the people in the Burgh a nice ride through the course of the season. After the Bye week, the team returns to action with a Sunday night tilt at Denver, followed by 3 straight games against their AFC North rivals (at Cin, vs Bal, vs Cle).
Raible
October 13, 2007
Quick Bucs note: It sounds like Huntington is going to put into place a manager who will act as an instrument of Huntington’s will. This is thouroughly pleasing for me. The old school habits of the traditional tobacco-spitting managers around the league drive me nuts. What I’m referring to is the propensity to manage in-game situations by feel and hunch rather than objective analysis. Should I have so-and-so bunt with X on and Y out? This question can be addressed mathematically. I like the idea of GMs, who are more and more analytical these days, utilizing a manager who will manage according to the organizational philosophy rather than his gut.
As for who it will be- I have no idea, and while I’m interested in the selection, I’m not really worried about it. If I have any preference it would be for someone who has handled pitchers. Girardi sounds fine, at least from that standpoint.
thegreatawakening
October 13, 2007
The Steelers:
I give Tomlin a lot of credit for the performance of our special teams. This area was never given proper respect under Cowher. Adding Rossum was seen as pointless by a lot of people but he’s a proven commodity. If he does nothing more than not fumble repeatedly, he may save us a game or two.
Big Ben is awesome- definitely in the tier right below Brady and Manning. It’s a team a sport, so credit is due to the line, backs, tight ends, receivers, coaches, special teams and defense too. Everything is clicking right now for Ben. It looks a lot like the Colts game, pre-Bettis meltdown.
thegreatawakening
October 13, 2007
Dean liking an analytical manager is about the least shocking news ever posted on this board. While I don’t agree as strongly (I feel there are no right or wrong moves, and whether done by a hunch of mathematics it’s always lucky as to whether something works or not) I do tend to agree that I like this theory as well. The Pirates need a change. They need something different. The thing that stands out the most about reading “Moneyball” is not how genius Billy Beane was, but how dumb other teams were. Not being dumb is key!
I tend to disagree with the special teams. With as much as Tomlin has put into them, I dont really think you can tell much of a difference. Reed’s kickoffs and field goals along with Sepulveda’s punts have been great but those aren’t coaching moves. I feel our return game and coverage is average at best. I’m not sure if this proves that special teams is just all luck, or that we should be playing better than what we are. Rossum’s average on kickoffs has a lot to do with that one return. Five games into the season almost anyone with a 90 yard + return is going to be near the top in average. I’d still like to see Willie Reid on punts but maybe that’s just me. I will say though, as Raible pointed out with Rossum’s TD, many people often point to things like, “How many games do you think Chris Gardocki lost us” or “How many games do you think Antwaan Randle El would have won us” and I do think the win against the niners can be attributed to Rossum’s return. You can’t always just simply add or subtract 7 points at the end of the game, and like Raibs said, that really changed the game. Now who knows if we would have lost or if Reid/Wilson would have had 8 punt return td’s against Arizona, but at the end of the year 1 or 2 extra wins is huge.
Anytime I think to myself, “The Steelers just CANT be a top 5 team in the NFL” I look around and think how bad so many teams are. So many teams are worse than projected. There might be about 5 teams in the NFL that are good at running, passing and defense. Patriots, Colts, Cowboys, Steelers and you still have to put the Chargers in that group. It’s also no surprise that those first 4 teams have 4 of the top 10 QB’s in the league. I always feel you can break down a million things if you’d like, but good QB play equals wins and bad QB play equals losses.
Last week watching Ike was tremendous.
Aaron Smith is great.
Chris Hoke is the man.
Clark Haggans seems to be playing better this year.
Throwing to tight ends is awesome.
Najeh has been a beast.
Don’t yell at me Raibs but I really wish we would have tried Simmons at Center and Kemoeatu at guard in preseason.
I’ll leave you with a direct quote from Chuck Noll. “I think the key to the defense this year is they’ve gotten to play against the hard running style of Gary Russell in practice. That has gotten them ready to face anything and everything from opponents and games now seem easy.”
thav916
October 13, 2007
-The play of the O-Line tonight was, in a word, pathetic. Has Sean Mahan forgotten how to snap a damn ball?
-The defense, as a whole, played poorly, too. It didn’t seem like we generated much of a pass rush, and our secondary consistently left guys open. Not being able to get off the field on 3rd and long was bad, also.
-The overall play on the road needs to improve. We have lost 2 games on the road that, in my opinion, were very winnable. Perhaps more frustrating is the fact that both games, at Arizona and at Denver, could have allowed the Steelers to gain a game on the Ravens in the standings.
-Next week’s game is going to be a tough one at Cincy.
-Big win for the Panthers this weekend. I think that Wannstedt needs to stay in the box for good. I can’t believe how well the defense played, and I was pumped about the opportunities given to both Shady and LaRod to gain 100 yards on the ground.
-Tough call for potential future Pirates manager Joel Skinner tonight. I hope that one misjudgment doesn’t cost him an opportunity to interview for the open position.
-Good weekend for the Pens. It was great to see Fleury step up and play so well on Saturday night. Each point earned is big right now as the Flyers continue to play inspired hockey. Pens-Rangers game on Tuesday night is HUGE!
Raible
October 22, 2007
Big news from Sunday’s Pitt Basketball Blue-Gold scrimmage:
-DeJuan Blair had a double-double with 17 points and 17 rebounds. It appears Blair has the inside track on the starting position. “I’m sure he can play the post,” junior forward Sam Young said. “He’s so determined. He has the attitude that no one is going to outplay him. He’s the same height as Chevy Troutman and he’s bigger than Chevy Troutman. And he’s fearless. And I think he’s more athletic. He definitely has the tools. He has the hands, he has a nice touch. I like him. I like him a lot.”
-Gilbert Brown had 15 points (6 for 9 from the field, 3 for 3 from 3-point range), 7 rebounds, 5 assists with no turnovers, two blocks and a steal. He looks to be the top backup to Mike Cook.
-Tyrell Biggs has played mostly power forward in practices and was there exclusively yesterday.
-Cassin Diggs had 13 points and seven rebounds going against Blair, while Levance Fields led the Gold team with 23 points and Young led the Blue team with 19 points.
-It looks like the team is planning on starting Fields, Ramon, Cook, Young, and Blair with Benjamin and Wanamaker being the top guards off the bench, Brown and Biggs as the top forwards off the bench, and perhaps Diggs as the backup to Blair at center. The season is quickly approaching…it should be sweet!
Raible
October 22, 2007
The All-Time Steelers team was announced today, and much to my delight, my All-Time Favorite Steeler was on it…
Dick LeBeau has been involved in the National Football League for 47 years, 14 as a player and the last 33 as a coach. He has had two stints as a defensive coordinator in both Cincinnati and Pittsburgh, and he was the Bengals’ head coach from 2000-02. When asked which player he has coached over those 33 seasons that he’d pick to build a defense around, LeBeau answered almost immediately: Greg Lloyd. What distinguished Lloyd from so many others? “Greg had a no-nonsense approach,” said LeBeau, “that seemed to permeate the rest of the group.” Lloyd played college football at Fort Valley State, where he also majored in chemical engineering, and the Steelers discovered him on a tape of the Sheridan All-Star Game, which featured players from the predominantly black colleges. Lloyd stood out because he made just about every tackle, all over the field, and the Steelers made him their sixth-round draft pick in 1987. Then, on his first play during his first minicamp, Lloyd covered the back out of the backfield and made the interception. A three-time All-Pro, Lloyd ranks sixth on the team’s all-time sacks list with 53.5, played in five Pro Bowls and was named team MVP twice.
Raible
October 24, 2007
33 players were named to the Steelers’ All-Time Team yesterday, with extra spots on offense and defense awarded to avoid any major controversy. Of the 33 that made the squad, here is what my starting lineup would look like…
QB: Terry Bradshaw
RB: Franco Harris
RB: Rocky Bleier
TE: Elbie Nickel
WR: Hines Ward
WR: Lynn Swann
OT: Jon Kolb
OT: Tunch Ilkin
OG: Alan Faneca
OG: Dermontti Dawson
C: Mike Webster
DE: L.C. Greenwood
DE: Joe Greene
DT: Ernie Stautner
OLB: Jack Ham
OLB: Greg Lloyd
ILB: Jack Lambert
ILB: Andy Russell
CB: Mel Blount
CB: Jack Butler
FS: Carnell Lake
SS: Donnie Shell
PK: Gary Anderson
P: Bobby Walden
Bradshaw is the only QB to make the squad, while I choose Franco and Rocky over Bettis so that Bleier can serve as the blocking back. Nickel seems to have been the best TE in Steelers history. I chose Hines and Swann at WR in what I consider to be one of the toughest decisions of all. I think that Hines will go down as being the best WR in Steelers history, followed by Stallworth and then Swann. However, with Hines already on the squad, I wanted to go with Swann as my other WR as he was a bit more “big-play” material than Stallworth was. Dawson entered the NFL as a rookie guard before moving to center, so that was my logic (excuse) for putting both Dawson and Webster on the O-Line.
Joe Greene may have played DT for the Steelers, but with the way he was able to get after the QB, I’m making him a DE on my squad. Stautner edges out Hampton for my DT spot. At LB, I am moving Russell inside; he had 18 career INT, so I am confident that he would be able to make the switch. Rod Woodson does not make my squad as I consider him to be one of the more overrated Steelers of all-time, while Shell edges out Polamalu at SS.
FYI: The remaining guys of the 33 that were named to the team that are not starting on my squad are:
RB: Jerome Bettis (goal-line back would be good coming off the bench)
TE: Bennie Cunningham
WR: John Stallworth
OT: Larry Brown
DE: Dwight White
DT: Casey Hampton
OLB: Joey Porter
CB: Rod Woodson
SS: Troy Polamalu
Raible
October 25, 2007
I’m pissed my favorite all-time Steeler, Dwight Stone, was left off the team. Travesty!
thav916
October 25, 2007
What a big weekend in “Burgh” sports we have! It actually started last night, with Jeannette and GCC playing on FSN after the Pens-Leafs game. Tonight brings with it the last weekend of the WPIAL regular season. Saturday is chock full with shit, including Pitt vs Louisville, WVU vs Rutgers, Penn State vs Ohio State, Pens vs Habs, additional big college football games (USC-Oregon, UGA-Florida, etc.), and a little World Series action. The Steelers play the Bungles on Sunday, followed by the hated Pats vs Skins and World Series Game 4. The weekend is topped off with the Packers vs Broncos on Monday Night Football.
SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!
Raible
October 26, 2007
-Good win for the Steelers today. Ben, except for the INT, played solid. The running game looked good, Hines was big, and the defense made plays when it had to. I thought that the Bengals still were able to move the ball down the field on our defense, which is a concern, as was the Kickoff Return coverage. But a division win on the road is good stuff!
-Tough loss for the Pens last night. Fleury continues to be an enigma, while watching Crosby and Malkin on the same line is like magic. It sucks that we went through 8 shooters in the shoot-out and couldn’t score. This week, the Pens head out on the road.
-Such a tough loss for Pitt yesterday. To compete like that for the whole game only to lose on a botched hand-off is just a tough one to swallow. Nevertheless, the team is making progress, and hopefully the Panthers will pick themselves back up in time to defend its home turf on Saturday against Syracuse.
-Still no word on a new Pirates manager.
-Pitt hoops gets started this week with an exhibition against UPJ…sweet!
Raible
October 28, 2007
Big win. At Cincinnati can never be taken lightly. Really came out and dominated. The biggest difference was our ability to score TD’s and holding them to FG’s. Looked like we were starting to let up just a little bit in the second half and it was enough to make me worry, but they came through.
Big Ben is the man. Woulda been nice if he threw the one pick away but I guess you gotta live and die with him creating. Willie Parker had what seemed to be his best game of the year. Defense has no pass rush but didn’t get lit up on the pass so I guess I can’t really complain. The play James Harrison made causing the fumble was awesome. Gotta love how Anthony Smith hits, but he looked completely lost on that long pass to Chad Johnson.
Looking forward I see no reason the Steelers shouldn’t go 4-1 in their next 5 and be 9-3 heading into their matchup with New England. They will be favored in every game so I’m even factoring in a slip up.
Thus far, I feel like the Steelers have dominated in all 5 of their wins. Have lost 1 that they shouldn’t have (Cardinals)and have gotten legitimately outplayed once (Broncos). By no means do I think the Steelers should lose to the Broncos, but I think Dean said it earlier, you’re on the road against a good team and that team makes the plays.
Mike Tomlin continues to be the man. Every word out of his mouth is amazing. His press conferences might be the greatest things ever. Should be pay per view. Did you hear how he started off his press conference today? “He started off by saying, “I hope we ran it enough for you this week.” And then ended it by saying, “We’ll try to run some more for you next week again.”
And wow, how sweet were those shades!?!?!?!
thav916
October 28, 2007
I can’t express my hatred enough for the local media and their obsession with running the ball. Last week, we “threw too much” and therefore we lost. This week, “we ran enough” and won. Does it even occur to anyone that last week we had 28 points and this week we had 24?!?!?!
Point 2 is the obvious “When you’re winning, of course you’re running.” We often pass for the lead and then end up running at the end, which makes blinded media, who should have watched the game, think that because they ran, they lost.
Point 3 is the New England Patriots. Tom Brady can throw the ball 50 times, they can run 10 times, and they in. I will not put Roethlisberger in the same category as Brady, but I will say that he’s our best offensive player. Maybe I have too much faith in Roethlisberger but I’m completely comfortable with him at the helm taking care of our team and throwing as much or as little as the game dictates. Last week against the Broncos, I found myself getting mad in the 2nd half when they DIDNT throw. Denver was stopping our running game. Parker did not have a good game and had 2 or 3 runs that made his stats look good. I have complete faith and trust in Big Ben throwing every snap.
Point 4-There’s no correlation between running early and winning. None. I hate the “The offense on the field is part of your defense.” What takes up more time on the clock? 3 runs and a punt or 2 runs, 4 complete passes, incomplete passes and 3 first downs?
thav916
October 29, 2007
It’s well known that I have been an opponent of Mike Tomlin, but I really like what he said after yesterday’s game:
“Stay focused where you are and appreciate the journey. That’s our approach. That’s been our approach. I could care less who we play in two weeks.”
Raible
October 29, 2007
The running thing:
I think the Steelers tried to exploit what Denver was doing defensively with both the run and the pass. Denver brings the house a lot, so the Steelers tried to do two things- catch them off guard with little delays and draws, and throw down field against single coverage. Obviously after a half the result was a 14 point deficit, which led to more passing. As we know, running and winning work together, one doesn’t completely cause the other. Having the lead leads to more running, and running effectively early leads to a lead and continued running. But if we had passed more effectively early we also would have opened up the run, gotten the lead, run some more, etc. You succeed on offense by getting yardage, and good teams can get yardage by being able to run or pass, depending on who you are playing and what they are trying to do to you. In a perfect world I’d like to run more than I pass by halftime, because less can go wrong. Dropping back a lot, even if effective overall, means more chances to get sacked and throw picks. Ben’s sack, fumble, defensive touchdown sequence is an example of that. But that said, when the defense commits to stopping the run, you go to the air, and that’s what happened against Denver. And I also agree with the comment that the ideal game-flow for the Steelers is to pass it down their throat early, and then do whatever we want afterwards. In the Denver it just didn’t work out.
Bottom Line:
I agree that the gameplan criticism was excessive and borders on being totally wrong. Our passing offense is good enough to be relied upon when the defense commits to stopping the run. Ideally I’d like to see more running, but that just isn’t always where the game takes you.
thegreatawakening
October 31, 2007
I think the world has been looking for a powerful, influential speaker ever since Pope John Paul II’s (doesn’t it seem like it should be Pope John Paul The II?!?) death and I think we’ve found it in Mike Tomlin. He might be the greatest person to ever grace the Earth.
thav916
November 1, 2007
Dean I’m glad you built on what I was talking about. Those are good points and I tend to agree. Did you know that Football Prospectus did research and there really is absolutely no relationship between running well at the beginning of the game and winning opposed to passing well at the beginning of the game and winning? Gotta do what works. It’s been crucial to bounce back after our losses this year and we have done so each time.
thav916
November 1, 2007
From Front Page…….
“As for Steelers, I’d like to segue this onto the Burgh page so we can really have a good discussion, but I think in my opinion it’s impossible to think our two biggest needs aren’t WR and OL. In fact, the only other thing I could see is OL and OL but I’d rather not do that. I will admit, if there’s a 3rd position out there that fits the “Well if there’s a guy that’s too good to pass up at this position we’ll take him” it’s at CB, which is why I’m fine with Wells’ pick. I’m very against HAVING to take a big wr but I back that up by saying if all things are equal I’d love a big WR. If a guy like DeSean Jackson falls by all means take him and laugh at the world, but as far as big wr’s go Jimmy Hardy definitely comes to mind as does Malcolm Kelly.”
Woodley looks like a beast and you gotta pray Timmons develops. Can’t forget how young and raw he really is. I think we could have drafted players that fit more into immediate plans but when you look at the Pats and the Colts I think it’s smarter to gear up for the next few years anyway. If we didn’t draft one, or two LB’s, we’d be talking right now how badly we need LB’s of the future. I love not having pressure on them and plugging them in as starters in year 2 or 3. I’d like to go on about how I hope Timmons switches to ILB but really, I don’t care if he becomes a RG, DT, of FS, I just want him to excel.
I was 100% against resigning Faneca, and I probably am still about 90% against it, but I do worry about our line with him so very worried without him. I’ve been down on Marvel for awhile now and have not changed my stance. I really don’t think we’ll have anyone above average on our line next year and that needs to change. We’re the Pittsburgh Steelers and we’re always gonna try to run and it’d also be nice for Ben not to have to run for his life back there. I think we need some type of lineman EARLY that can become a stud. Mike Webster, Dermontti Dawson, Jeff Hartings, Sean Mahan. One of those names don’t belong, I’ll let you decide which. I’m ALWAYS for drafting an elite center. Also never mind grabbing a lineman late and hoping for the best. I still hope that Kemoeatu can step in next year and be sweet.
I really think my desire for OL and WR goes hand in hand with my love and respect for Roethlisberger. I think we have a top 5 QB in the game and I want to make him as good as possible. Give him more weapons and give him a line. Wouldn’t shock me if Nate Washington and/or Cedrick Wilson aren’t back next year. I think we actually NEED a WR. Not to mention that Hines, while still sweet, isn’t getting any better. An electric WR in the draft to be the 3rd WR for a year or two would be a huge addition. This year doesn’t seem great with WR’s but when I look, there really are a lot of names. That should mean that after the combine and workouts you’ll have some elite WR’s. Tell me Ward, Holmes, Rookie WR, Reid wouldnt be an awesome foursome?!?
I was extremely against a CB last year in the first round. Just had too many young ones already and I always feel if your pass rush is better, your corners are better. I might have changed my mind a little bit, but I think it’s good how it’s developed. We needed to give those young guys time to see how they shook out under Tomlin. Ike looks like the man again. BMac hasn’t stepped up like we all hope. No one likes Townsend, but he continues to play (but for how much longer), my boy Billy Gay looks like a great find, and the Ricardo Colclough experiment is officially over. I still don’t want a CB on the first day (how weird is it that the first day is only Round 1 and 2 now?!?) but I wouldn’t absolutely hate it. While I want to make the offense as dynamic as possible, there’s nothing horribly wrong with making the greatest defense ever.
Ideal draft as of today definitely includes Round 3, Owen Schmitt, FB, WVU. I’m sure i’ll write 9 million words another day about him but let’s sum it up by saying we could cut Kreider (something the Steelers seem like they want to do) and cut Carey Davis (something every fan seems to want to do) and replace them both with one manbeast known as Owen Schmitt. I’m fine with taking him in the 2nd round but I’ll leave that for another day! (TOMORROW!!!! lol)
thav916
November 1, 2007
I think a lot depends on the development of Willie Reid, and what Tomlin thinks after a year with our defensive backs. Part of me definitely feels like our line might implode without Faneca. I’d be a million times more comfortable if he had a couple more years on his deal. This is why you gotta love the boring lineman picks instead of the falling skill guys we always want in the mid rounds, After a few years the develop and we have a solid starter out of nowhere. Not sure if that’s gonna happen next year though. A lineman in round one would be nice because he’s have a better chance of playing quickly, but it’s hard to predict if a suitable guy will last. Last year Staley and Grubbs were there but that was it. If we don’t happen to like those guys we may go another direction even with the gaping hole. I wanted Ryan Kalil last year but we chose Woodley instead, which I couldn’t argue with because you never know what the front office thinks of a guy. By now the Steelers have earned our trust.
As far as Benji and the weapons…….always tempting. For awhile now I’ve been hoping for a Cooley/Clark type of H-Back to give us a versatile runn-pass look, but Spaeth seems to give us that with more of a run emphasis, which is fine by me. First round receivers are awesome when they work out- another Santonio would be great. Anthony Gonzalez would have been my choice had he lasted into the 2nd last year. What I’d like to avoid is a Craig Davis.
Okay, I’m gassed, more later.
thegreatawakening
November 1, 2007
Some thoughts…
-Your guys’ obsession with Tomlin gives me a good laugh everytime I read a comment. And, most definitely, it should be Pope John Paul THE Second! (For the record, I think we have an influential speaker…and his name is Stephen A. Smith. Go Nuggets!)
-I think both Woodley and Timmons are gonna be beasts, and I can’t agree enough that taking guys who can develop into stars seems to be a better idea than taking guys who might be able to play immediately. The Steelers have the luxury of letting Woodley and Timmons develop into the 2nd coming of Greg Lloyd and Kevin Greene. Sweet!
-I wish we could resign Faneca, but I understand that the economics of the game won’t allow for it. If Tony Romo got the kind of money he got, how much more do you think Ben will (and should) get? Resigning Ben is more important than resigning Faneca. And Ben is, in my opinion, the 3rd best QB in all of football!
-I prefer Conredge Collins to Owen Schmuck, but that’s neither here nor there.
-I’m not ready to talk about Willie Reid being a shoo-in as a future component of this team. While he played relatively well while Hines was hurt, he is obviously not doing something right for him to be deactivated so frequently. And if Tomlin is indeed the man, as you guys suggest, then he must REALLY be doing something wrong.
-I can’t decide if I like Anthony Smith or not. I like the fact that he brings it on every play, but I feel like he plays like such a ‘ger. He talks waaaaaaaaaay too much for a guy who really hasn’t accomplished anything in the NFL, and I’m worried that he might just be a big hitter and nothing else. Nevertheless, it’s always sweet to see someone smack down that rat-tailed fag Housh!
-You know, I have heard a lot of talk this week about how Baltimore and Pittsburgh are so evenly matched. If Baltimore is as good as the ‘Burgh, then why have the Ravens struggled so much thus far? I’m not taking anything for granted, especially in a divisional game, but a loss this week would be completely unacceptable, especially with the all-time greatest Steelers in attendance as part of the 75-year anniversary team. This game, as much as any Tomlin will coach this season, is a must-win. Win this week, keep the home crowd happy, and begin to distance yourself from your AFC North rivals. BIG game!
Raible
November 1, 2007
I’m not gonna be too strong on this but based on recent games sometimes I wonder if we should have spent money on Plax and Faneca now and not Hampton and Troy. We seriously don’t skip a beat with Hoke and Smith in there and it just seems like our defense is built around 11 solid players and the genius that is Dick LeBeau. Obviously I think Hampton and Troy are studs, Plax was about 18 years ago and I’m just thinking aloud so it’s not worth really debating.
Ben really is gonna sign for a lot. I hope he takes a little less than what he could get elsewhere. Love seeing that (Tim Duncan)
Raibs questions Anthony Smith cuz he acts like a ger, loves Stephen A Smith and prefers Conredge Collins to whoever Owen Schmuck is. Ha, I don’t really care, just funny how we all form opinions on people and players, certainly myself included.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say Mike Tomlin won’t score a TD this Monday Night. Big game for the Pittsburgh Steelers, not just Tomlin.
I’m a huge Willie Reid supporter and would like to place him in the future plans but I’m not ready to pencil him in either. He’s done far from showing that he’s a must keep.
I hope the Steelers pound the Ravens. I’d love if Woodley had a 2 sack performance in the limelight. Steve McNair is one of those scary QB’s that sucks every game and then looks like a superstar against us. I’m praying this doesn’t happen.
Mike and Mike Monday morning at the Marriott. Who’s in?!?
Anyone here think that the Steelers two biggest needs aren’t OL and WR? I’d like to hear if you agree or disagree and why.
thav916
November 2, 2007
I know Haver said he didn’t want any comments on his thinking out loud, but I must…
I actually think that your thoughts on Hampton and Polamalu aren’t all that far-fetched. While I will still maintain that the Steelers didn’t win a title until Plax left, for whatever reason, the dude is seriously sick. As for Hampton and Polamalu, I think Haver is dead on in his assessment that the defense doesn’t lose a beat when they’re out of the lineup. WIth that being said, though, I am obviously certainly happy that we have them both locked up (LOCK and LOAD, baby, LOCK and LOAD…the CZAB!!!).
You have to bring up Aaron Smith in this discussion, I think. It might just be me, but, man, I really feel like the defense has missed his presence (“I want to give him the heat and announce my presence with authority!” “Announce your fucking presence…”) during the majority of the Denver game and last week in Cincinnati. Smith might have been the most important extension that was granted in the last couple of years.
Raible
November 2, 2007
Interesting fact about McNair vs. the Steelers:
McNair is 11-4 against the Steelers, including a 5-3 road record and a 102.8 quarterback rating in Pittsburgh, with 21 career touchdowns and 13 interceptions.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again…as a Steelers fan, I hate facing McNair as much as any QB in the league!
Raible
November 2, 2007
Neal Huntington could be on the verge of making a decision about who will be the next manager of the Pirates. Yesterday, he met with Cleveland third base coach Joel Skinner, who might have been the Pirates general manager’s final interviewee for the position.
If so, that means the five candidates are Skinner, Chicago White Sox bench coach Joey Cora, Class AAA Indianapolis manager Trent Jewett, Los Angeles Dodgers bench coach Dave Jauss and Class AAA Lehigh Valley manager John Russell, a former Pirates coach. A source confirmed yesterday that Boston pitching coach John Farrell, who was high on Huntington’s list, has removed himself from consideration and will remain with the Red Sox.
Of the guys mentioned, who do you dudes want to see get hired? I’m still leaning toward Skinner as I really like the potential there, even if he didn’t send Kenny Lofton home to score a run that would have been rendered meaningless by the final outcome of Game 7 of the ALCS. Cora would be my 2nd choice and I like the fact that he is young and is trusted by Ozzie. I’m not a big fan of either Jewett or Russell, although I guess the fact that Jewett knows a lot of the younger guys from his days as manager at the AAA level is a good thing.
All in all, I expect and hope for the next Pirates manager to be Joel Skinner.
Raible
November 2, 2007
The Pens, coming off a tough 3-2 loss at Colorado, are 6-5-1 with 13 points heading into their Saturday night showdown with Atlantic Division rival New York Islanders. While the Pens certainly haven’t exactly picked up where they left off from a year ago (the #5 seed in the Eastern Conference and projected by many to be a potential Eastern Conference Champion), the team has played well enough to currently sit 6th in the conference. Most importantly, since putting Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin on the same line together, both young stars have begun their climb up the NHL scoring leaders chart.
My take on what the Pens’ lineup should look like heading into Saturday’s important early season matchup:
1st Line: Malone-Crosby-Malkin
-I love this line combination that Coach Michel Therrien has put together. It finally seems like he is willing to let Crosby and Malkin play together for more than just spurts of random time, which is exciting for all of us ‘Burgh fans. And having a guy like Malone, someone who is capable of scoring while also not being to go into the corners and hustle for pucks, on their line is a great concept.
2nd Line: Christensen-Staal-Sykora
-In my opinion, it’s time for Therrien to drop the personal vendetta against Christensen. Like it or not, the kid has proven to be a big-time threat in the Shootout Round; now it’s time to give him the opportunity to do it in regulation.
3rd Line: Roberts-Talbot-Armstrong
-I wouldn’t be opposed to having Colby on the 1st line, either, as I feel like he played well on a line with his best bud Crosby and Malkin last year. But, as it is, I really love this line…the Energy Line, as I call it.
4th Line: Recchi-Kennedy-Hall
-I could care less if Ruutu and/or Laraque play, so I’m sticking with Kennedy and Hall here. Recchi, at this point in his career, is really nothing more than a 4th line player anyway. This isn’t your father’s typical 4th line, but then again, that 3rd line isn’t your typical 3rd line, either.
1st Pairing: Gonchar-Eaton
-These guys play well together.
2nd Pairing: Whitney-Orpik
-My favorite pairing with 2 of my favorite Penguins. This is assuming that Whitney is healthy, of course, which is a big question mark considering he left last night’s game early with an injury. If that is the case, then I would think that Sydor would bump up to the #2 pairing with Orpik, with the ol’ pairing of Scuderi and Nasreddine reuniting as the #3 pairing.
3rd Pairing: Sydor-Scuderi
-See above. Even if Whitney is healthy, at some point Therrien should get Nasreddine some work. If you feel strongly enough about him to include him on your roster, then it’s only fair and smart to give him some work at some point.
Starting Goalie: Marc-Andre Fleury
-Having sat on the bench for a week, it’s time for the Flower to reclaim his #1 position. Furthermore, it’s high time for Fleury to establish himself as one of the premier goaltenders in the league, which he has shown flashes of from time to time.
Backup Goaltender: Dany Sabourin
-One of the team’s big questions has hopefully been answered during the last week. It has become apparent, at least to me, that Sabourin can fill in for Fleury and be a servicable backup. If Sabourin plays more than 30% of the team’s games, though, then it’s going to be a long season for the Pens. And that’s no shot at Dany…it’s just that for the team to go anywhere this year, it’s going to have to be on the shoulders of the Flower.
Raible
November 2, 2007
Real quick before I can hear too much on my porch about the Norwin Woodland Hills game……
AAAA-I’m goin with North Allegheny. Last year I picked Upper St Clair when there were a ton of teams with a lot more D1 talent and I went with the unsung hard workers high schoolers. It worked for me so I’ll try it again.
AAA-If Tyler “Illegimate son of Rock” Wehner can’t play I want to pick another team to win but AAA just seems weak to me.. Maybe Char Valley, maybe Montour, but I’ll say DeCicco steps up at QB and TJ has too much talent.
AA-Jeannette. Can’t pick against them. Such a loaded bracket though. I don’t understand at all why the next 5 best teams (Ford City, Steel Valley, Beaver, Beaver Falls and Aliquippa) are all on the other side of the bracket.
A-Man, hate not being able to pick Duquesne. Sad. Tempted to go with the next closest thing, Clairton, but I’ll go with Serra. They seem to have a ton of offensive firepower and I’ll say they’ll be too much for Clairton.
thav916
November 3, 2007
I didn’t want to talk too much about the Hampton and Polamalu points…….unless you agreed! Aaron Smith is definitely missed. It could have to do with the backups but nonetheless we need Aaron Smith. It’s a shame how good he really is but playing the 3-4 DE is about the toughest position in the game to get credit for.
Steve McNair on Monday Night. Doesn’t get any scarier.
As for the Pirates manager as long as it’s a guy that seems to be highly regarded and isn’t Trent Jewitt I should be fine with it. Dare I say, “I am SO DONE WITH Trent Jewitt?!?!” Obviously sucks that the guy from the Red Sox turned us down, as I’d take anyone from Boston. I want new I want fresh. Skinner seems like as good a choice as any.
If only Tomlin had a brother we could hire!!!!!!!!!!
thav916
November 3, 2007
Brought to my attention by my brother, this is one of the greatest things I’ve ever read. From Dr. Z’s latest power rankings….
“Pittsburgh Steelers (5-2)
This is a statistic I mention because people who lean on it show me they don’t really understand football: In games in which Fast Willie goes over 100 yards, the team is 5-0. In games in which he doesn’t, they’re 0-2. It’s like saying, they’re 5-0 in games in which they score more points.”
Dr Z is the man!
thav916
November 3, 2007
Haver hates running the football.
Raible
November 3, 2007
Ha, I love running the football. I love Willie Parker. But I hate people’s obsessions with facts that aren’t true and statistics that are pointless or manipulated for people to think they are right. Dr Z hit the nail on the head there and I loved it.
thav916
November 3, 2007
Johnny Russell. Uge.
thav916
November 4, 2007
I wasn’t a big fan of hiring Russell because, of what I could remember, I didn’t like him as a 3rd base coach when he was here a few years ago. But, after reading about him, there are a few nuggets that look tasty:
-Touted in the past as one of baseball’s best managerial prospects.
-Earned Minor League Manager of the Year honors in 2002 after guiding the Triple-A Edmonton Trappers to a Pacific Coast League championship that season.
-Displayed an aggressive style of coaching when he manned the 3rd base job while with the Bucs. Was actually criticized by some for sending people home too often; ironically, I think that we haven’t sent home guys often enough since he left.
All in all, I’m OK with the hiring. I don’t care if it’s Osama Bin Laden managing the Bucs just as long as we start to win some games!
Raible
November 4, 2007
It is funny when you think that one of the reasons people don’t like the new manager because of how he coached 3B. As if that really has any correlation to being a manager. Ideally I preferred someone that has never even heard of the Pirates so I’m not exactly thrilled. But I agree with Raible, if he wins he wins. Those “nuggets that looked tasty” also looked nice to me. I really am hoping to see fire from the manager. I love guys like Leyland and Pinella. I love a guy that will tell his team they suck. I’m hoping Russell is like that. But all in all Just win baby!
thav916
November 5, 2007
More stupidity followed by awesomeness.
Golic is one of those idiots that likes to bring up “The Steelers blueprint.” So this morning he was interviewing Brian Billick and said “The Steelers are 5-0 when Willie runs over 100 yards. Is their winning formula that simple?” And Billick was like, “No, otherwise they’d just run 50 times.”
That’s great!
thav916
November 6, 2007
Well if that was a big game for Mike Tomlin I think it’s safe to say he played fantasticly!
Roethlisberger is awesome.
Jimmy Harrison is a beast.
Troy Polamalu finally made some plays.
Huge win. Ravens were without McAllister, Rolle and Heap. We had to dominate and we did. Huge game next week against the Browns. Win and separate.
Go Steelers!
thav916
November 6, 2007
Oh and let me guess almighty media, we won because we ran the ball so much and we can’t win with the pass, right?
thav916
November 6, 2007
Haver loves the media…
BIG win for Tomlin. The biggest, by far, in his short tenure as coach. Have to follow it up by holding steady at home next week and beat the Brownies.
While Ben played amazing, I was still glad to see the team not abandon the run. While the media may overblow the running notion, the fact still remains that you have to at least stay committed to the run and not become one-dimensional (nor should a team only be able to run and not pass). If the pass sets up the run, so be it. Even though Parker never was able to get moving, I was still happy to see him get the ball 20+ times to keep the defense honest.
Note to Bill Belicheck: That’s how you close out a game that you are completely dominating at the half. Take the air out of the football, get some snaps for your backup QB, throw the ball around to guys like Washington. Like him or not, but I respect what Tomlin did last night in not running up the score.
What else is there that can be said about Harrison? It was simply one of the best performances by a defensive player that I have ever seen. I think that Polamalu might have played his best game of the season, too.
Wow, that 75th anniversary thing was amazing.
Raible
November 6, 2007
Here’s another one of those real insightful stats that I read today…
Mike Tomlin is 6-0-0 when leading by 11 points or more.
And I wonder how many coaches don’t have great records when leading by 11 points or more?!?!
Raible
November 6, 2007
I don’t want people to misconstrude my thoughts on the Steelers. If you think that I don’t like running the ball with a lead, or even in general that you’re not understanding what I’m saying.
I love nothing more than passing for a lead and then running the hell outta the ball. Actually, I’m fine with getting a lead any way possible, whether by running, passing, defense or special teams. My points are a little different and just how things are perceived. This Monday night is a perfect example.
If you look at the box score you see the Steelers threw the ball 21 times and ran it 39 times. Then you hear someone saying, “That’s what the Steelers do. That’s how they win, that’s their formula. They win when they run the ball so much.” That’s the comment I couldn’t disagree with any more. If you watched the game you saw Ben Roethlisberger being an absolute magician and the running game pretty much non-existent. We won because of how we threw the ball (and played defense) and then maintained the lead with the run in the second half to grind the clock.
Other scenario’s with the same principle are when are defense gives up 28 first half points and we haven’t scored. What do you think is the best, and only way to try to come back? By throwing the ball all second half, trying anything possible to get big chunks of yards. At the end of the game, you see the box score and see Big Ben threw the ball 40 times and we only ran it 18 times. What do you hear? “The Steelers can’t win when they throw the ball that much.” Absolutely ridiculous. One time I’d love to see (ok not actually but you get my point) the Steelers be down 28 points and come out in the second half “committed to the run.” Could you imagine them grinding the clock and running the ball? Either they get a 3 and out with no yards and punt or they have a spectacular 13 play 80 yard 8 minute long drive for a TD and still down 21 points. They didn’t lose because they threw so much, they lost because they were completely outplayed and then HAD to throw.
It’s situations like that that irk me. When you have a big lead of course I want to run the ball. Don’t drop back to pass and do anything stupid. Don’t play too conservatively but play smart. The main point I’m saying is that I think Ben Roethlisberger is a top 5 QB in the league (it’s pointless to put an exact ranking on him). I think he’s good enough that in a game that calls for a shootout or for a lot of passing that we can win the game with him at the helm. Do I love running the bal 50 times showing complete domination? Of course! But if the run is being shut down or we’re being scored on, we’re completely fine with Ben throwing the ball 40 times and winning the game.
thav916
November 7, 2007
Yeah, I think that’s a good point…who the hell cares how we do it, just as long as we win the damn game. “YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!”
Raible
November 7, 2007
How huge is Norwin-McKeesport on Fox Sports Pittsburgh this Friday night?!?
thav916
November 8, 2007
HUGE!
Raible
November 8, 2007
Would you trade Roethlisberger for an NBA expansion team? I know, me either. Who would you trade?
thegreatawakening
November 8, 2007
I would trade Mike Tomlin for an NBA expansion team.
Raible
November 9, 2007
I would trade Roethlisberger for an NBA expansion team.
thav916
November 9, 2007
That 3rd down play call on the first drive was absolutely horrible!!! After the kind of game that Ben had on Monday night, why in the hell would you not let him throw on the 1st series at all? And then the Browns march right down the field for a 7-0 lead. It’s a damn good thing that Tomlin, Arians, LeBeau, etc. are obviously extremely prepared for this game. Wow…I know it’s really early, but so far it’s been an extremely PATHETIC performance!
Raible
November 11, 2007
The questionable hiring of Special Teams coach Bob Ligashesky, a renewed emphasis on the Special Teams unit, and the following quote from Coach Dipshit:
“Part of the things that make you great are time-tested relationships, shared experiences, continuity,” Tomlin said. “We are in the process of building that brick by brick in the (special) teams game.”
What does it all result in? A terrible Kickoff Coverage unit that seems to be getting worse as the season progresses, as witnessed by the allowance of a 90-yard KO return for Cleveland’s Josh Cribbs today. SOLID!
Raible
November 11, 2007
Let’s fire Tomlin, Colbert, LeBeau, Arians and cut Roethlisberger, Parker, Hines, Harrison, Smith, Hampton, Troy, and every other player on our team and bring back Cowher because he was undefeated and perfect.
thav916
November 11, 2007
Haha…you can’t tell me that you aren’t disgusted with the performance thus far?
Raible
November 11, 2007
Another big-time Kickoff Return?!?! Not only was the hiring of Ligadumbass the worst hiring in professional sports, but I am so sick and tired of reading about the emphasis placed on Special Teams by this coaching staff. Is the coaching staff emphasizing how to be the worst Kickoff Coverage unit in NFL history?
Raible
November 11, 2007
That’s a win folks!
thav916
November 11, 2007
And the Steelers can’t win with Roethlisberger slingin the ball around?!?!?!? What a performance!
thav916
November 11, 2007
Great points by Haver: A win is a win, and Ben was simply amazing!
2 90+ yard Kickoff Returns is a concern. Gotta hand it to the coaching staff, though, for making the necessary adjustments after Cleveland marched right down the field on its opening drive. Once again, I was glad to see them stick with the run to keep the defense honest. Some great catches from Hines, some great scrambles by Ben, and most importantly, win #7!
Raible
November 11, 2007
Ya, great points as usual by myself. LOL
By no means did I think that was some type of great performance. I thought the nitpicking early on was a little premature and just seems like some of us are looking a little too hard into every single thing Tomlin is doing. He’s a rookie coach and I can’t stop someone from doing that. I did also get a text from The G.A. about 15 minutes into the game that he hated the play-calling. I wasn’t a fan of some of the play calling, either and don’t like the special teams. The return td was a little freaky but nonetheless shouldn’t happen. The 3rd and 9 QB draw by Ben was also a call I didn’t like. Just in principle I think if you’re up 7 I’m fine with that call because 40 seconds coming off the clock is huge, but only up 3 I don’t like punting and them only needing 15 yards for a FG. Lucked out with the penalty. But I think we have a tendency to nitpick on things we don’t like and take for granted what we do like. If I mentioned all of the play calls I liked today I’m name about 40 plays.
Let’s take a look at that game. In just about every win this year we have DOMINATED. We can’t expect to dominate in every win and we can’t forget about the dominating wins after a performance like today. This is a division game where we already pounded them once. How many times does a loss that shouldn’t occur happen because of freaky plays, turnovers or special teams?!? To overcome the mistakes and still win the game is absolutely monsterous. I am one to think that it’s tough to predict special teams and it’s tough to make “great” special teams. They have tried to focus on it and it doesn’t seem any different. You just can’t simulate what is going to happen. But the defense was phenominal after waking up and the offense was spectacular and led by the star that is Big Ben. If our offense and defense are great, and they have been, we should be fine. To be down, give up bad plays, throw the ball to win and come back shows a lot about this team.
And rain doesn’t affect Tomlin!
thav916
November 11, 2007
In a lot of ways I really think this was a *great* win. We actually overcame some adversity for a change, and Ben simply shoved a dagger into Anderson and Browns, skinned them alive, and feasted on their organs while they watched. Ben has to be a nightmare for opposing fans. He is to be feared.
With that in mind, I *really* hated the playcalling. I really don’t like the way Arians thinks. Unlike the Wiz days, I rarely mention the play I want to see and then watch it happen. The 3rd and 2 reverse is just bad. What is the reason to elect NOT to give Ben 4 throw options plus a run instead of a slow developing reverse? Was there big play upside? No moreso than a passing play that would surely include various routes. Was it more likely to gain the 2 we needed? Of course not, and considering that Tomlin has been aggressive on 4th and short the reverse was much more risky than a normal run, which would at least have a good chance to make 4th down sneakable. I hate to beat up a single call, but what was the possible explanation here? Calls like this bother me because they raise questions about the man calling them.
And if you are a Browns fan, and there’s 2 minutes left, aren’t you praying that we run Willie up the gut 2 straight plays before running a QB draw? Seriously that’s the exact play sequence I would have chosen if I wanted us to lose. So what of they get it back with 2:25 instead of 1:30? Either way its plenty of time, and if we come out looking to get the 1st (esp. since CLE was ready for the run) I think we get it and end the game 75% of the time.
While I believe in a commitment to the run- even when it isn’t looking pretty- and even when Ben is playing like a hall-of-famer- I just don’t think there’s any excuse for repeatedly putting Ben in 3rd and long when he probably could have taken us down the field all day with 9 guys on offense. Cleveland’s only hope against Ben was to only have to stop him on one down instead of 3.
OK, I really don’t like to be on the rant on the coaches kick, but that really pissed me off today.
Back to the main point- a lot went against us today but Ben was just too much. And that can happen against anyone. If he plays like he has been, nobody wants a piece. Our line is shaky. The Pats and other good teams might be able to explout our pass protection. But when Ben is hot he can take over like a guy on fire in NBA Jam.
Rant over.
thegreatawakening
November 12, 2007
I couldn’t agree more on the play calling. I think Bruce Arians sucks, but then again, I’m not a big fan of anyone on the coaching staff that isn’t named Dick LeBeau.
The funniest part about this game, for me, was my girlfriend’s responses while watching me watch it. She said that she has never heard me bitch/complain/comment more than I have while watching this game. And I don’t doubt her. The game was so frustrating from a Steelers fan perspective. While Cleveland is improved, I still think that their defense sucks and that we should beat them 9 out of 10 times on our home field.
In any case, the boys got the win they needed. Now, just as importantly, they need to go and take care of business against the Jets, Dolphins, and Bengals before their big matchup against the Pats.
At this point, would anything less than 12 wins be a major disappointment?
Raible
November 12, 2007
The Dolphins, Rams and Jets are terrible. It’s still the NFL, but 4-1 in those games plus the final 2 diviional games seems like the worst case scenario. I usually feel like doing projections and woking up scenarios are kind of pointless until very late in the year, but 12 wins just seems right. Jacksonville forces you to execute to win, but other than that game the rest are such that a certain result seems forgone.
On another topic, the people who say the regular season doesn’t matter are right from a certain point of view. And from that point of view, Indy’s loss yesterday means nothing at worst, and at best is a good thing. From the other perspective, you play games to compete and to win. If you live in the moment, then every game matters, because the emotions are real every time, and the missed FG cost Indy fans an exciting win and a fun week. Really at the end of the day what else do games actually determine, besides the emotions of those who invest in their results? But if your answer is that championships matter, and are all that matters, then I think the Colts are as much of a favorite now as they were at 7-0. They can be overlooked from now until their first playoff game, but that won’t make their playmakers any less explosive. If anything this little slide, relieves the pressure of a title defense and allows the men (yes, I’ve bitten off Tomlin) to focus on preparing to execute “when it matters.” Assuming they can avoid the Steelers, the Colts are my pick to win it all. And I do think the Steelers are their worst matchup, while I’d like to see Pittsburgh avoid New England.
P.S.
I wouldn’t trade Ben for Brady or Manning.
thegreatawakening
November 12, 2007
Michel Therrien is really starting to piss me off. I am growing really annoyed with his insistence at not playing Fleury and Colby. While I like the fact that he put Malkin back on a line with Staal in the hopes of getting Staal going, how can you complement Staal on that line with the 90-year-old Mark Recchi?
Putting Sykora with Crosby seems to make some sense, as does leaving Malone on the top line. I would like to see Colby or Gary Roberts line up on the 2nd line with Malkin and Staal. I see absolutely no reason why Colby should ever sit.
Malone-Crosby-Sykora
Staal-Malkin-Armstrong
Roberts-Talbot-Christensen
Recchi-Hall-Laraque
I can’t stress enough how badly I want to see Fleury play. This team is going nowhere (NOWHERE!) with Dany Sabourin as its starting goalie.
Man, losing 6 out of 7, or whatever the hell it’s been, as me extremely frustrated!
Raible
November 13, 2007
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned here lately is the play from Anthony Smith. And I’m not necessarily talking about his actualy play, but rather, quite frankly, his talking. Does this guy ever shut up? I don’t think he’s nearly good enough to be talking the smack that he talks. To boot, Jamal Lewis literally ran him over on Sunday and Smith got up talking crap.
Look, I like his agressiveness, and confidence is a good thing. I just wish that he would go about his business a little more quietly until he becomes a key component of the defense. I really don’t want him to be talking stuff after getting his ass ran over.
Anyone else have any thoughts on Mr. Smith?
Raible
November 13, 2007
Ant Smith:
Safety is a tough position to evaluate without doing some film study. Even when you get a good look at a guy’s back on a long touchdown pass you never really know what his responsibilities were on the play. So what do we know about Smith? He can hit, he can make athletic plays on the ball, he runs his mouth, and he lost a close competition to Ryan Clark in the preseason. You always hope that the coaches see enough from the physical freaks on the roster to be comfortable putting in the game in important situations. When I see a guy who can hit like Smith, my first instinct is to get him in the lineup. But come game time I wouldn’t trade 1 missed assignment for 5 highlight hits, especially since most of the time a normal tackle would do fine. As for the talking, I can live with it from Hines because it’s spontaneous and he’s the manm. Every time I see Smith running his mouth I just think he’s a douchebag.
thegreatawakening
November 13, 2007
Looks like we’re gonna see a whole lotta Anthony Smith for the rest of the year whether we like it or not. Ryan Clark out for the year is disappointing. Great to have them both back there. F’n spleen. Mike Logan gonna get a call? I also think Smith and Clark are tough to evaluate. Clark always gets billed as the “solid” one and Smith the “big hitter.” But I don’t really think Clark doesn’t hit hard and I dont think Smith blows too many assignments. I like Smith and I like Clark as players. Also have to trust the coaching staff and tough to evaluate the position as pointed out. Smith clearly talks way too much and the thing that really bothers me personally is he seems to be a 15 yard penalty waiting to happen. Love that he pounds people. He really could be a great player. The talking is just how he is and I guess all we can do is hope he settles down a little.
thav916
November 14, 2007
Regarding the Pens, Madden said……ha just kidding.
Here’s my question for the Pens fans.
Do you look to trade Fluery now?
Now before you just rush and say no, here’s the thought process that was presented to me by my brother.
-You’re not trading him because you don’t think he’s going to pan out. You’re still assuming he’s going to be awesome. You just don’t think it will be for a few years.
-You also realize ideally you’d like to keep him, but with all of the young players that we’re going to have to resign a trade of Fluery commits to Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Whitney, etc and makes it possible to sign all of them.
-You feel like you can win RIGHT NOW and that a trade of Fluery can bring you some great and much needed talent. Hard-nosed defenseman, more scoring, veteran goaltender.
-Whether the goaltender was picked up in the trade or a separate trade or in the offseason, you’d try to acquire a goalie that was older and better right now and also much cheaper.
Thoughts? If you dismiss the trade right away then at least explain how you’re going to sign everyone or who you’re gonna choose not to sign? Or at least give some other thoughts or explore the possibility.
thav916
November 14, 2007
Regarding Fleury, I think what needs to be pointed out first and foremost that I would be absolutely shocked if the Pens even considered trading him. With that as a backdrop, let’s take a look at this possibility a little closer…
Clearly, Fleury has struggled thus far for a team picked by many to contend for the Eastern Conference crown. He has struggled so much to the point that his backup, Dany Sabourin, seems to be getting at least 50% of the starts at this point.
I think we can all agree that Sabourin is definitely not the answer if the Pens are going to win now. If he isn’t, and if Fleury is to be traded, then a new goalie is needed (unless there are some big Ty Conklin, the goalie at WB/S, fans out there). What goalies might be available? Some names that have been thrown out there include Curtis Joseph, Martin Gerber, and Andrew Raycroft.
Do I think any of these guys are better than Fleury? Absolutely not. Furthermore, who’s to say that Ottawa or Toronto would even be interested in dealing Gerber or Raycroft? And what else would come in a deal for one of these guys? There’s no way that you are trading Fleury straight up for one of these guys.
There seeems to be a concern that the Penguins need to win now, and with Fleury struggling, we should push the panic button and trade him. What we all need to remember is that this is an extremely young team. While they may have the ability to win now, I think that this team’s better days are clearly ahead of them. Who do they have to win now for? Mark Recchi and Gary Roberts?
As for how to resign everyone. The team has already committed to Whitney and Crosby, so figuring out what to do with them is a moot point. Malkin and Staal will present interesting decisions, but who’s to say that Jordan Staal, at this point, is any more valuable than Marc-Andre Fleury? 1 goal?!?!
Additionally, trading Fleury now doesn’t make sense as his trade value is probably at the lowest possible point. Trading Fleury just to trade him, even if it brings back a good defenseman or something, doesn’t seem to make much sense.
Simply put, I think even entertaining the idea of trading Fleury at this point is insane. This is a franchise-caliber goaltender that we are talking about, one which the team used a #1 draft choice on. Furthermore, the kid has shown that he has the capability of playing well in this league already…he’s just not doing it now.
To think that Fleury is the only reason why the Pens are struggling right now is naive. While Fleury certainly hasn’t played well, who on the team is doing anything on offense outside of Crosby and Malkin (and, occasionally, Syrkora)? Who on defense, besides Orpik, ever throws a check? The problems that this team is experiencing go a lot further than simply on the shoulder of its young goalie.
Furthermore, I think that Therrien is now starting to really mess with Fleury (and Colby, for that matter, but that’s another conversation for a different time). If he knows that he has a fragile psyche, as he says, then why continue to play musical goalkeepers with him? Put him in and stick by this guy.
Penguins fans were spolied last year by the unexpected success of the team. As I mentioned, this is a young team, and while it may have a lot of talent, can they really compete for a Stanley Cup this year? I say that you stick with your young guys and see how far they can take you. Remember, the team stunk out of the gates last year, too, before turning it on after the Holidays and finishing as the #5 seed in the Eastern Conference.
Let the chips fall where they must on resigning everyone. The point that needs to be made is that it is possible that all 5 guys can be resigned, especially since Crosby took the “hometown discount” in an effort to try and keep the team intact. And there’s no reason to believe, as of today, that Jordan Staal is any more valuable than Fleury anyway.
For the record, if I have to rank the value of each of the 5 young guys, I’m going with:
1. Crosby
2. Malkin
3. Fleury
4. Whitney
5. Staal
I actually think that Fleury is the key to the success of this team, but I don’t think you can have him higher than Crosby (definitely not) or Malkin at this point in their careers. I love Ryan Whitney as much as the next guy, but a franchise-type of goalie is more important, in my opinion.
No matter what anyone says on here, this idea is certainly an interesting one. And, while I may not agree with it, I am interested in reading what everyone else has to say about it.
Raible
November 14, 2007
Very good article by Joe Starkey in today’s Tribune-Review that essentially describes my feelings about the Penguins right now:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/sports/penguins/s_537779.html
Cheers!
Raible
November 14, 2007
I like to ponder things like this. In other words ideas that seem ludicrous at first glance.
As with any trade scenario, the question is “for what?” Considering that a hot goalie can take an average team deep in the playoffs, I would think that a team with a bland roster and questionable future would be excited by the possibility of adding a young, high-profile goalie like Fleury. I’m still not sure what that would ytanslate to in terms of an offer, but I’d think that an intriguing package would emerge if we put him on the block.
Another issue is resigning the young core of the team. I really have no idea how feasible it is to keep everyone (meaning the 4 high picks plus Whitney). If it is a foregone conclusion that someone is going to walk, then part of me wants to make a deal now. On the other hand, since we aren’t totally sure how Fleury and Staal are going to turn out, we could always ride things out and deal with the problem if and when it happens.
The tricky part about trading Fleury specifically is that all the things that make him attractive to trade partners are reasons to keep him. Since goalies can mean so much, it’s painful to get rid of a guy who might be the answer. But this team does seem like the type who can win in the future by lighting up the scoreboard and getting dependable if not spectacular veteran goaltending. For some reason I also kind of feel like Fleury is mentally weak and will end up finally putting together a consistent run when he’s 28 and on some other team with less attention on his development. I hope that’s wrong.
Regardless, the problem with this team is that it is terrible past Crosby and Malkin. Recchi is horrible, Roberts should just rest until February, Staal is giving nothing, and the rest of the forwards are just weak. Sykora is a decent part, but Sydor looks bad, and he’s fitting right in. The defense, from both defensemen and forwards is simply soft. And the lack of scoring by the secondary units has been well documented.
thegreatawakening
November 14, 2007
That might be the first time ‘very good’ and ‘Joe Starkey’ were in the same sentence.
thav916
November 14, 2007
Yeah, I’m usually not a Starkey fan, either, but his piece is dead-on, in my opinion.
Raible
November 14, 2007
Great responses. I’ll probably talk a little bit more based on principle than actual knowledge of hockey.
There’s enough reasons why it is possible
-Pens struggling
-Therrien’s displeasure for Fleury
-Just as Jordan Staal might not be any good who’s to say Fluery will be either?
-Salaries
-Getting a great package
-Not playing for the future, you never know what will happen, try to win now
But just as many reasons why not to trade him
-What you gonna get?
-Worry about signing players later
-Could be a franchise goalie
-Can win with him now AND win with him later
-Tough position to fill
The main thing that stands out to me is that it would be stupid to trade him now. As Raible pointed out, chances of getting a good goalie back are slim. Deciding to go with Sabourin for the rest of the year could be viewed as giving up on this year, which would be silly since they are talented to go on a run at any point and contend for the cup. You’re not gonna get equal value. They need to let him play. It’s weird that they don’t. They need to play him this year and see what happens. If Therrien is still the coach, Fleury is still a problem, and the season doesn’t go well the offseason could be a different animal. In the offseason I think it’s a lot more possible to retool the team. As Dean pointed out a team that isn’t great could view Fleury as a life saver. Not to mention the exact types of players that would be great to add on the Penguins could be rotting away on the lower level teams that would love to get Fleury. The best thing I can say is think Bruce Bowen on the Bobcats and the Spurs trading for him. Crosby is often compared to Gretzky so where are our Semenko’s and McSorley’s?!? I’d love dudes like that on our team. Sooooo many if’s but if the year doesn’t go well, if Staal looks better, if the Pens could get a nice package from another team that included a guy like Semenko or McSorley among others and if they could sign an older, solid goaltender for a reasonable salary it seems like it could make A LOT of sense to trade Fleury. It’s always tough when talking about trading a player because you don’t know what’s on the table. And with everything said, I’m the type of guy that STILL thinks Tim Couch can be a franchise QB. Basically, I hate the idea of trading a guy like Fleury until he’s 45-years-old and still hasn’t improved.
thav916
November 15, 2007
Love the recall of Letang yesterday. Rumor has it that he will be put on the 2nd PP unit with either Sydor or Orpik. I’m hoping that he dresses in lieu of Scuderi.
In addition, Fleury is getting the start tonight against the Isles. I’m really hoping that he can get going and earn the confidence of his coach.
Another guy I’m rooting for is Colby Armstrong. Madden said on his radio show yesterday that he is getting scrwed, which I agree with 100% (Madden actually cited Starkey’s article, saying that it was right on). Not only does Colby need to play everday, but I think he needs to play on either the 2nd or 3rd line.
Next 3 games are at home aganst divisional opponents before a tough trip to Ottawa. Now’s the time boys!
Raible
November 15, 2007
Good solid win for the Pens last night. What an unlikely source for the GWG, eh? I would still like to see Colby actually dress, but I give Therrien credit for sitting Recchi and Sydor for the better of the team (Kennedy and Letang). I really enjoyd Paul Coffey’s comments on air during the 2nd period. Most importantly, a solid performance from the man, Marc-Andre Fleury!
Raible
November 16, 2007
It’s about time we talk about the best big man in Pittsburgh, Shawn James. What a program changer! Ron Everhart is outstanding. The Dukes are back!
thav916
November 18, 2007
Haver loves the Dukes. Let’s see how he does in the City Game. No matter what happens, though, it’s great to see Duquesne become relevant again!
Raible
November 18, 2007
Good point, after that game the best big man in the burgh could be Kieron Arcara!
thav916
November 18, 2007
Wow, where to begin?
-It was a bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad loss for the Steelers today (that’s one bad for every Jets sack of Ben). The Jets managed 7 sacks today, yet only had 9 for the season coming into the game. The offensive line is just plain putrid. Tomlin’s boy, Sean Mahan, might be the worst starting Center in all of football; the one sack in the 2nd half where he was left lying on his back pretty much sums up his pathetic existence. Alan Faneca wants to get paid? How about he actually goes out there and earns it. Willie Colon sucks, and I think Haver’s right in his analysis that Marvel Smith is on the way down.
-While the O-Line couldn’t open any holes against the league’s worst-ranked run defense (haven’t we heard this before?), I am really starting to grow tired of Willie Parker. He entered the game leading the AFC in rushing, so I guess I can’t complain too much. But, I swear that the guy doesn’t know how to stay on his damn feet. His 2 and 3-yard runs are putting the team in 3rd-and-long situations. And even with the magician that is Ben back there, teams can just bring the house on 3rd down with how bad the O-Line is.
-How many balls did the WR corps drop today? I think Hines had a few. Nate Washington just sucks. Haver hit the nail on the head a few weeks ago when he said that this position needs to be addressed soon!
-Even though Ben is the man, I thought that he didn’t play his best game today, either. Now, part of the reason could have been that he was under fire the entire game, without the help of an effective running game. But, it seemed to me that not only was he more uncomfortable today than he’s been in a long time, but that he also misfired on a few passes that he had been connecting on in recent weeks. The INT was a bad pass.
-For the 2nd straight week, the team came out flat. Staring at a 10-0 deficit to the 1-8 Jets after the 1st quarter is completely unacceptable. Blame the players, blame the Jets, blame whomever. But Mike Tomlin and his staff have to take some of the blame for once again allowing the “men” to come out in a complacent manner in the beginning of the game.
-So much for the myth that you can’t run on the Steelers, eh? As much of an assbeater as Thomas Jones is, I thought that the Steelers missed WAY too many tackles today. Additionally, how many damn penalties was the defense willing to take today? Ike Taylor got wasted on the flea-flicker play, then committed a big-time pass interference call that led to the Jets’ first FG. Aaron Smith took a bad roughing the QB penalty on a 3rd down in which the Steelers held the Jets.
-What is up with Polamalu? Could he have overplayed any more plays today? He just doesn’t seem to be playing with the same speed and intensity as we have grown accustomed to see him playing with. I don’t know if he has cooled it down a bit since he got his money, if he really does have a tummy ache, or if he’s just not as good as we all thought he was. Whatever the case may be, Troy is not playing up to the standard that he has set for himself.
-Special Teams was better than it has been, but it was still the unit that ultimately let the team down in OT. The “men” really need to get their shit together in this area.
All in all, I thought that the “men” played extremely poorly today. To boot, the game was actually a relatively boring one to watch. Most disheartening is the fact that the loss drops the Steelers to 7-3, 1 game ahead of Cleveland. That’s 2-3 on the road this season, folks, with the 3 losses at teams with .500 or worse records (Arizona, Denver, NY Jets).
There was a lot of talk around these parts during this past week that the Steelers have a real chance of beating the Patriots when the teams get together in a few weeks. The Steelers don’t have a freaking prayer in that game if they played as they have done so up to this point in the season. Let’s look at the facts: The Steelers have yet to beat a good team (unless you consider Seattle or Cleveland good) while completely underperforming against inferior competition on the road. What makes anyone think that they are going to win at St. Louis or Baltimore, little yet New England?
When it’s all said and done, however, the “men” will still probably win 10 or 11 games this year and should, I repeat “should”, win the division. However, I don’t see this team being able to win any games on the road come Playoff time, which means that we are probably looking at nothing better than a win in the Wild Card Round. It is what it is.
Raible
November 19, 2007
As much as I hate losing a game due to special teams or turnovers and as much as I want to vomit afterwards at least you have an excuse after those types of games. Today, we just simply lost. Outplayed by the New York Jets. Kellen Clemens wheeling and dealing. Thomas Jones running with ease. A terrific pass rush. Unbelievable.
As for the 7 sacks, I think we’d have a lot more games like that if Roethlisberger wasn’t so elusive. I feel like that happens just about every game, but Big Ben causes people to miss and then at the end of the game we don’t have many sacks against and people think our o-line did a good job. The o-line sucks.
As for the defense, I don’t think they played unbelievable and some individual plays were poor but overall they played well enough to win. 16 points in regulation, great stands inside the 10 yard to force field goals. I think this loss was on the offense, although must also point out that the game was 16-13 and one defensive stand would have won the game. So I guess I’ll just blame the whole team.
As I always say, this loss is just one game. If it sets a pattern we’re in trouble. Can only evaluate after the season. It was absolutely horrible but we must bounce back. Playing down to your opponents unfortunately happens. I still can’t believe it happened, can’t believe we actually lost, but it happens. As for the “haven’t beaten a good team” I’m not a big fan of that. This year in the NFL there’s about 8 good teams. Your schedule probably isn’t going to be filled with those 8 teams twice. You can’t do anything other than play the schedule you have and the teams in the NFL. You can only beat the teams you’re supposed to beat if you’re good enough to be supposed to beat them. The key to a lot of the Steelers wins was how dominating they were in them. Still can’t forget about them. Look at a team like the Browns. They’ve beaten absolutely no one this year. But they’re beating teams. They are 6-4. Good for them. Steelers have 15 games on their schedule they should win. One they shouldn’t. If they lose to the Pats and win 11 or 12 of those games they were supposed to win you have to still give them credit for beating those teams, no matter how horrible they are. Steelers suffered a really bad loss today. But other than the Patriots I still think they’re good enough to compete for the Super Bowl. The Patriots being the most stacked team ever kinda makes things different. If the Steelers bounce back from this win they should still win the division. If they don’t bounce back they’re in a lot of trouble.
Can’t believe they made the Jets look like a good team today.
thav916
November 19, 2007
That was some great analysis by Raibs on Marvel Smith and the receiving core though, ey?
thav916
November 19, 2007
Let me preface this by saying that I realize you take the good with the bad and the good is outstanding and also that I think it’s pretty obvious that I think very highly of Ben Roethlisberger. He also could probably be sacked 10 times a game. BUT, for him to take the next step he HAS to make better decisions. Like I said, no doubt that he could have been sacked even more. But when you watch replays of a lot of those sacks he took on Sunday and a lot in general, they look like obvious plays to get rid of the ball. I don’t want him to become a different type of QB or anything but when the play is obviously not there he needs to throw it away more. A sack can absolutely ruin a drive whereas a throw away can keep it going.
When you look at poor special teams and losing games like we have this year I can’t help but put a lot of blame on our recent drafts, specifically, Day 2. In 2002 on the second day the Steelers drafted Larry Foote, Verron Haynes, and Brett Kiesel (along with Lee Mays and LaVar Glover). Look at all of the names since….
2003
Ike Taylor
Brian St Pierre
JT Wall
2004
Nathaniel Adibi
Bo Lacy
Matt Kranchick
Drew Caylor
Eric Taylor
2005
Fred Gibson
Rian Wallace
Chris Kemoeatu
Shaun Nua
Noah Herron
2006
Willie Colon
Orien Harris
Omar Jacobs
Charles Davis
Marvin Phillip
Cedric Humes
2007
Dan Sepulveda
Ryan McBean
Cameron Stephenson
Billy Gay
Dallas Baker
THATS ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. After Ike Taylor it’s been all down hill. This is also why I backed the pick of Sepulveda. We’ve had so many busts on the 2nd day it felt nice to get a guy that was a guaranteed starter, even if it was at punter. Those drafts and names are just terrible. I used to have the tendency to say, “Nah, they draft late think about so and so.” Well the so and so’s are from 6, 7, 8 years ago now. I don’t think this is talked about nearly enough, or perhaps even realized.
thav916
November 20, 2007
When the Steelers play a close game, I like to pretend that the result have gone the other way and imagine what kinds of comments we’d be hearing and reading right now. When we win it’s easy to forgive everyone and when we lose it’s almost impossible to see the bright side of anything.
Win or lose, I think the defense underperformed despite giving up little in the way of points after the flea-flicker (great idea, by the way, to go after aggressive Smith and Taylor in that manner early). Although they tightened up near the goaline, the missed tackles, penalties, and softness in general allowed the Jets to make this the kind of game they needed it to be to have a chance. Their drives took up time, they forced our offense to execute longer drives, and of course they gave themselves several opportunities in our territory, and a team like that needs plenty just to generate an average amount of points. While the matchup of our line versus their defensive front certainly went their way, if you give our playmakers enough time and opportunities with the ball, particularly with the type of field position that allows us to be aggressive, we will score touchdowns. On a day when our offense was not in a good rhythym, we needed the defense to do more than limit the Jets to field goals. An extra 3 and out or turnover by the D could have easily been enough in my estimation.
More later…
thegreatawakening
November 20, 2007
Deano, a few things
-You seem to be acting like this was a close loss at Indianapolis
-You seem to be fishing as much as I’ve ever seen for reasons on why to blame the defense more than the offense
-I’ve thought the same thing about the draft since before this season. I don’t care if I said it in April, preseason, right now or after we win the Super Bowl, try to argue that those drafts have been great.
-Win or lose with Roethlisberger, try to argue that he doesn’t need to become a smarter player. We won the Bengals game but I thought his interception looked like a decision that just shouldn’t have been made. He got sacked 7 times. Our O-line sucks. But he needs to throw the ball away more and that’s in losses or wins.
thav916
November 21, 2007
That paragraph was actually going to expand into other areas of blame but I ran out of time and had to go to a meeting. I’m trying to address each unit on a stand alone basis because I feel like it’s easy to let the results of the game and the performaces of other units influence the way we analyze things. For example we might not be able to run or pass block at all (Ravens) but Ben and the D make enough plays that we win and forget about the problems. Anyway, I’m going to finish my thoughts now.
thegreatawakening
November 21, 2007
The special teams strategy of kicking away from Leon Washington was probably smart considering how poor our coverage has been. Regardless, it only takes one bad play for the special teams unit to kill a team in a close game. I’d have to guess that our punter wasn’t instructed to change the plan in overtime, and it’s hard to tell whether he intended to either pop it up, go out of bounds, or boom it deep and take his chances since he mis-kicked it. Either way, it’s hard to blame that single play for the loss, especially when the offense should have put the game away twice. But, coming up with a big punt in OT, or getting a big play out of one of the return units earlier could have bailed us out of a terrible performance. Anything more than a breakeven effort from the third unit is unfair to expect, but gaining a special teams edge, which can mean a signle return or four quarters of awesome coverage, can win tight games easily. The special teams gap wasn’t as glaring on Sunday as it was against Cleveland or Arizona, but it was present and it made a difference in the game.
You can’t mention special teams without mentioning the coaches. It’s easy to say “we were outcoached” anytime the team loses as a favorite, but when you lose to the Jets it’s harder for me to argue. While I don’t think it is fair to blame the staff every time we come out flat, this is the third time now that being flat and losing to a shitty have coincided. What’s even more bothersome is the inability to make scheme adjustments, particularly at halftime. It was clear that we were outmatched in the offensive trenches (ouch), yet we didn’t come out with quick hit passes or other ways to counter the Jets’ aggression. We also had 100 yards worth of penalties which is horrible whether you blame the coaches or the players. I guess it’s unfair to ignore the Jets’ coaches in theis equation- of you get outcoached the opponent must have done something, and in this case it looks like they came up with a great defensive gameplan during the bye week.
The offense only scored one touchdown against the Jets. All of the other things, which alone weren’t fatal, get overlooked if we hit one or two more of the big plays we are used to. The line has been getting the bulk of the blame, and I mostly agree. They suck as a unit. Not much has changed from a player standpoint, so all we have are questions. Was Hartings underarated? Has Faneca either lost a step or his motivation? Is Mahan really a woman? Did Marvel have a sex change? Does Simmons have AIDS instead of diabetes? Either way we can all agree that the unti sucks. But should that be enough to lose to the Jets? Well it was pretty bad. But more could have been done by the skill guys. Ben held the ball awfully long for a QB who knows he’s not getting any protection. Willie seemed resigned to his 2 yard gains and didn’t look to bounce it outside or rocket into the hole. The receivers dropped balls. Just as the defense, special teams and coaches could have done a little more to pick up the offense, if the offense could have mustered a couple first downs in the 4th or in OT it would have been an ugly win that we’d just want to forget about. The difference is that the offense sucked no matter how you slice it, while the other units had some issues but did enough expect to beat the Jets.
Overall
QB C+
RB D
WR D+
OL F
F7 C
DB B-
ST C+
At the end of the day the offense is the culprit if you’re looking at why we’re 7-3 instead of 8-2. The other units did enough to expect an ugly win. But they didn’t play well either. The Jets were playing with a new starter at QB and lost their best receiver immediately. Saying we held them to under 20 points is a bit misleading in my eyes. They rushed for 151 yards, got 20 first downs, and only turned it over once. The special teams and coaches didn’t help us either. That’s what has to happen to lose a game to the Jets, and that’s why the loss is so disturbing. No one got it done. Looking ahead, I expect bounce back performances from Ben and the defense. Holmes is out. Willie looks a little worn down. The line should be euthanized. I’m not sure what to expect team-wise the rest of the year.
thegreatawakening
November 21, 2007
Are those questions about Ben and the draft for me or someone else?
thegreatawakening
November 21, 2007
How much did Raibs love that Pens game last night?!? The Colbster gettin on the board. Fleury a shutout. His fantasy boys Crosby and Whitney scoring. Staal with a goal for good measure. 5-0 shutout after the shootout win vs the Senators. It was nice to see Fleury right back in goal after getting pulled against Ottawa and it looks like both games worked out perfectly.
thav916
November 25, 2007
Yeah, the Pens game last night was sweet. I love the Malone-Crosby-Armstrong line, and it was great to see Staal get off the schneid (spelling?). The Flower was certainly solid in net, and I thought that Laraque and Ruutu did their jobs admirably, too.
Could it be that the comeback win over the team that knocked the Pens out of the Playoffs last season is the one that sparks the team on a run this season? I sure as hell hope so.
Let’s go Pens!
Raible
November 25, 2007
Wow! Well, what can be said about tonight’s game? It’s hard to be too critical of anything considering the field conditions were about the worst that I have ever seen…and that includes field conditions for pick-up football games at the old Shaw Elementary School!
I thought that, all things considered, Ben, Willie, and Hines all played solid on offense. Ironically, I thought that Willie played one of his better games, in shit conditions no less, in awhile. Hines was simply a monster, and Ben made the plays that he needed to make to win the game. The defense, too, was simply dominant, albeit in bad conditions against a bad team.
The O-Line, even though the field was poor, seemed to once again not hold up their end of the bargain. Missing Marvel no doubt hurt, but the unit as a whole continues to struggle. I actually thought that Starks played better than Colon tonight; perhaps Max has earned his old job back?
In any case, I think we can all agree that a win is a win (as Haver can attest to, with his freakin’ 1/2 point win in Fantasy this week!). Let’s take it and come back strong against the suddenly resurgent Bengals next Sunday night!
Raible
November 27, 2007
Tough to say anything other than it was huge to get the win.
A couple times I didn’t like the calls made…going for it on 4th and 1 when I thought the game was totally based around field position and the passing play on the final 3rd down was interesting. But I’m not mad about them or anything. Can easily think and like that they had faith in the team to convert the 4th and 1 and maybe they wanted the pass at the end for the TD as they didn’t trust the surface. I thought by far the worst call of the game was the Dolphins kicking on 4th and 6, getting a penalty and then going for it on 4th and 11. I don’t know what made Cam Cameron feel like he’d be able to get a 4th and 11 in the worst offensive game of the year but kudos to him!
Hines was great today and really all of the receivers were. Maybe someone can help me but I can only remember two of the incompletions and they weren’t drops (Interception and pass at the end deflected by Porter). I know Porter had some nice plays tonight but how dumb is it to have him and Jason Taylor and not unleash them both?
You really think we missed Marvel tonight? I didn’t see that at all. Obviously biased, let me throw that out there. But Max did a great job. Obviously watched him closer than most. But they actually did show the isolation on Max shutting down Taylor early. Max might not have been Anthony Munoz out there but Marvel isn’t either. Starks’s blocked FG was awesome, too (I think it was him, he sure celebrated like it was…just gonna assume it was).
Play of the game was clearly the 3rd and 3 play to Willie Reid. Not because of the first down, but to give me the half point victory!!!!!!
Hate playing a poor team in conditions that take a lot of the skill out of the game, but the defense played great and the Steelers got the win. We already beat the Bengals once and I’m a firm believer that playing the Bengals is always tough, no matter what, no matter where. Hopefully we come out strong.
thav916
November 27, 2007
The only reason why I say that we might have missed Marvel is because it him being out forces us to continue to start Willie Colon. Not only do I think Max played better than Willie tonight, but I think Max is just plain better than Willie. On the plays where Ben was sacked, it looked like the pressure came from the right side.
That being said, wow, I agree 100% that it’s retarded not to just rush Taylor and Porter every single down!
Raible
November 27, 2007
HUGE news from my man Ray Fittipaldo…
Pitt has agreed to play in two exempt tournaments in the next two years. The Panthers have agreed to play in the Legends Classic in Newark, N.J., next season and at the Guardians Classic in Kansas City, Mo., in 2009. Dixon favors those two tournaments over the Maui Invitational and the Old Spice Classic (Orlando, Fla.) because they come with two home games and then two games at the city sites if you win at home. The Legends and Guardian tournaments will provide stiffer competition than the exempt tournaments Pitt has played host to in recent years.
Raible
November 27, 2007
Max is definitely the man. The positive to starting Colon is it’s seemed to leave the much more versatile (or better, obviously a negative) Starks as the backup. Can play RT, LT, TE all efficiently. Maybe Colon could do these things but it’s a lot cooler to think that only Max could. Colon was drafted as a guard, I wish he still played guard. I know I got yelled at at the beginning of the year for talkin o-line but it’s obviously a weakness. And it’s fun to play around with. I think it woulda been sweet to head into 2008 without Faneca and Simmons (saving money). Start Starks at RT and Kemoeatu and Colon at the guards. Start off the year with Marvel at LT and Mahan at Center, but similar to this season, double up in the draft and take a LT and Center in the first two rounds. By 2009 cut Marvel and have Mahan back up everyone. Far-fetched? Yes. But I’m doing anything I can to not do homework that’s due tomorrow.
Badass teams play in the Legends Classic. However, Dixon just isn’t cool enough to go to Maui. You don’t pass up time on the beach with Raft.
Any doubt Fittipaldo told Raible this news while at his house watching the Monday Night Game?
Why do I love Duquesne hoops?
My sister, “Who do you think will be the Sportsman of the Year this year.”
Me-”Maybe Brady, Arod, Papi, Duncan, LeBron, etc.”
My Dad-”Ya, those guys…OR SHAWN JAMES!”
thav916
November 27, 2007
Question: Would the Havers love Duquesne hoops as much as they do if they didn’t love the City of Duquesne?
Much like trying to figure out how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop, this is something that I have pondered for many years.
Raible
November 27, 2007
I fully support the discussion of the Steeler offensive line and its components at any and all times!
I think there are two ways to watch and analyze offensive line play. The first is to spend time watching each player in a variety of situations- running downs, passing downs, pulling and leading, doubling down, going straight up versus a pass rusher, etc. This gives you a nice idea of the strentghs and weaknesses of each guy. The other option is to just watch the line of scrimmage at the beginning of every play to gauage the overall effectiveness of the line as a unit. While you won’t get an idea of exactly how each man is performing pay in and play out, you do get a sense of what schemes other teams think will work against us and whether or not they are right. I tend to watch the line in this manner, partly because I find it easier to take a quick glance and then find the ball, and partly because I lean towards thinking that line-play is a group effort moreso than 5 individual battles. Granted, sometimes there is clearly a glaring weak link that is pathetically easy to isolate, but oftentimes (especially the case with a decent line) different defenses try different methods of attack from week to week, which can throw different linemen into ugly assignments and under the microscope.
Based on this method of viewing, it seems clear to me that our line is not up to the task as a unit, regardless of the tempo and texture of the game or who has the lead. In years past I might notice that we might have trouble with an overloaded blitz to one side or we couldn’t get any push in obvious running situations, but this year the line just looks poor and overmatched in every generic situation that arises. When we’re giving up sacks or struggling on the ground I always hope that I’ll see four guys taking care of business and the 5th getting singled out and crushed. But this year……not so sure about that, which leads me to some questions I hope someone will have an opinion on:
1. In your view, are any of the guys consistently playing at a high level- and not just stringing together a couple quarters w/out getting embarrassed, but actually looking rock solid from game to game?
2. How would you grade Faneca compared to recent years? To me he hasn’t stood out, which is a good start for a lineman, but I think this particular team needs more than that from him.
3. Sounds like Starks played well, although I didn’t really watch him that closely. Did he seem improved in the running game, the area where he has been criticized? And do you think that perhaps he’s more cut out to be a LT than a RT?
4. If we replaced Mahan with a prime Jeff Hartings do you think that would be enough to get the rest of the crew looking respectable? It’s really tough to tell whether defenses are having continued success at the expense of a single player (and he is the ONLY new guy after all), or if we just can’t stop anything from a simple stunt or edge rush to an all-out blitz.
It’s odd that Ben is drawing such heavy praise and Willie is leading the AFC in rushing while the line is just getting barbequed in the media. Part of Ben’s legend has certainly been built on the personal elusion of the pass rush, but it’s still strange to see a mix of statistical success for the two skill spots and perceived incompetence of the OL. Part of me thinks that the line can just start playing better- maybe it’s wishful thinking, but 180s are more possible in football than in any other sport.
thegreatawakening
November 28, 2007
Haha, my family’s liking for Duquesne hoops is that big of a mystery?!?
thav916
November 29, 2007
1. In your view, are any of the guys consistently playing at a high level- and not just stringing together a couple quarters w/out getting embarrassed, but actually looking rock solid from game to game?
-I don’t think it’s fair to say that any of the guys are playing at a consistently high level right now. With that being said, I think that the left side of the line (Smith and Faneca) have played much better than the center and right side of the line (Mahan, Simmons, Colon), which really shouldn’t come as much of a surprise. Outside of Monday’s game in which he was called for holding a few times, it seems like Heath Miller has done a fine job at TE. And even though they’re not technically O-Line, I think that Kreider has done a better job as a blocker than Davis, but that neither has really excelled nor disappointed.
2. How would you grade Faneca compared to recent years? To me he hasn’t stood out, which is a good start for a lineman, but I think this particular team needs more than that from him.
-I don’t think that Faneca has played as well as he has in past years. He seems to have lost a step, which isn’t surprising at his age. The result is that he has been beaten a few teams more this season than he has in the past. Additionally, he doesn’t seem to be able to pull as quickly as he has in past years. However, we’re talking about an annual All-Pro here, one of the best linemen in Steelers history. A bad year from him is still a better year than everyone else, which I think is still the case this season.
3. Sounds like Starks played well, although I didn’t really watch him that closely. Did he seem improved in the running game, the area where he has been criticized? And do you think that perhaps he’s more cut out to be a LT than a RT?
-I think that Starks was unfairly criticized for the O-Line’s play last year, and as a result, he seems to be the only one who took the fall. With that being said, replays showed that Starks did a nice job blocking Jason Taylor on Monday Night. While some of it might have had to do with field conditions, he no doubt had to at least have caught the eye of Coach Mike.
4. If we replaced Mahan with a prime Jeff Hartings do you think that would be enough to get the rest of the crew looking respectable? It’s really tough to tell whether defenses are having continued success at the expense of a single player (and he is the ONLY new guy after all), or if we just can’t stop anything from a simple stunt or edge rush to an all-out blitz.
-The fact that Mahan has found himsef sitting on his ass on more than a couple of occasions this season speaks for itself. He’s clearly not the next great center in the line of Webster, Dawson, and Hartings. With that being said, Webster, Dawson, and Hartings are all HOF or potential HOF-caliber players. Experts say, however, that the Center position is the most crucical one on the O-Line. If that is indeed the case, then I believe that a Hartings in his prime would clearly help the O-Line as a whole in its protection and run blocking.
Raible
November 29, 2007
1. In your view, are any of the guys consistently playing at a high level- and not just stringing together a couple quarters w/out getting embarrassed, but actually looking rock solid from game to game?
I don’t think any are playing at a high level. I don’t think any should be a pro-bowler, but it’s not like I have other guards that I watch that I know for a fact are playing at a high level. I always would like to DVR the games and then re-watch but I just don’t have enough time. But, no, I don’t think any are playing at a high level.
2. How would you grade Faneca compared to recent years? To me he hasn’t stood out, which is a good start for a lineman, but I think this particular team needs more than that from him.
Once again with Faneca, I think you see him getting beaten A LOT. With that said, you still don’t know how much better he is than another guard or a backup.
3. Sounds like Starks played well, although I didn’t really watch him that closely. Did he seem improved in the running game, the area where he has been criticized? And do you think that perhaps he’s more cut out to be a LT than a RT?
I also feel like Starks got criticized unfairly. I feel like Starks was criticized moreso in the pass blocking with giving up big games to speed rushers such as Derrick Burgess. I was never a fan of how Cowher or Grimm or whoever didn’t adjust when a bigtime speed rusher was against Starks to put the TE over there as help. I also always felt like Starks might not have been a pro bowler but Marvel Smith was equally as bad but no one talked about it. Starks is a mountain of a man and not the quickest guy so I’m not sure if he’s a LT as that seems to be more of the pass blocking position. But you’re gonna face good DE’s on both sides and you’re gonna run to both sides. He did great against Jason Taylor but that field took away from some speed to say the least.
4. If we replaced Mahan with a prime Jeff Hartings do you think that would be enough to get the rest of the crew looking respectable? It’s really tough to tell whether defenses are having continued success at the expense of a single player (and he is the ONLY new guy after all), or if we just can’t stop anything from a simple stunt or edge rush to an all-out blitz.
Hartings over Mahan would make the line better. If there are 10 bad plays a game and Mahan is the result of 3 of them and Hartings would have only made 1 bad play you’re looking at 8 bad ones instead of 10. I don’t think he suddenly makes everyone play better and still think they’d be subpar but we’d have a better player at Center plain and simple. As mentioned, I don’t like having Mahan mainly because at best he’s an average starter. We’re the Pittsburgh Steelers. We don’t have average Centers. If there’s a good thing about it, Chukky Okobi is out of the league so I don’t even think it was a bad decision, but Mahan is just not good.
Since Dean gave the go ahead for o-line talk at all times, one thing I thought in the offseason but we never went to was trying Faneca at Center. Could have made a Hartings-like move from Guard to Center. Faneca has played LT in the past and seems to be a good player no matter what position he’s at on the line. Seems like a good fit in terms of signal calling and being in control of the line. Granted, there could have been a zero percent chance of this even working, but just in a dream world it would have been nice if we could have said, “Move to Center and we’ll give you whatever contract you want.”
Even though guys like Brady and Manning are never touched, one has to wonder if it’s simply as much as style as it is O-line. Don’t get me wrong, if Brady or Manning were on the Steelers I think they’d be sacked more than they are now. And if Big Ben was on the Pats or Colts I think he’d be sacked less. But, I think Brady and Manning do a great job of quick decision making and getting the ball out quickly. Big Ben holds out for the big play and doesn’t release early a lot.
O-line is just so important. I don’t think we have any high level players right now and if we do, it’s Faneca and he’ll be gone. As bad as we make our line out to be, Willie Parker is having a great season and Roethlisberger often gets time to throw. I don’t want an average line. I want to draft O-lineman mainly because I want studs on the line, not solid starters.
thav916
November 30, 2007
A solid, if unspectacular, performance from the Steelers last night. Ben was good when he needed to be, Hines was a monster, and the defense fought back after letting Cincy go right down the field on their first drive. Not sure what the hell happened to Najeh, Willie, although leading the AFC in rushing, just doesn’t seem to be running well and can’t hold on to the ball, too many turnovers, and too many injuries right now.
That said, the team is 9-3 and 1 game behind Indy for the #2 seed. I think that the Steelers have a real shot to beat New England next week, but they need to hold on to the football and hopefully have some guys come back from injury (especially Holmes and Polamalu).
The O-Line seemed to have played much better last night, no?
Raible
December 3, 2007
To be honest I thought the line was bad again when you take into account how shitty the Bengals’ front seven is. I was at the game so I’ll watch the Tivo at some point soon and update my opinion.
Hines is a great, great player and I think I’ve finally started to take him for granted. But games like yesterday, when he’s the only target on the field I trust, remind me of how awesome and dependable he is. Heath Miller should be mentioned too, as he always finds the opening and drops nothing.
thegreatawakening
December 3, 2007
I thought the line was solid. Don’t think we’re suddenly gonna have 5 Hall of Famers out there this year, they didn’t really do anything wrong or horrible. I’m happy with that type of performance. Maybe you could say that due to the Bengals front 7 it HAD to be that type of performance. While possibly true, I don’t think you can take anything for granted with that line this year. I LOOOOOOOOVE all the comments about running to the left to follow Faneca, due to Max being beside him and having to be doing a formidable job.
I was soooooooo ready for the Gary Russell era to begin.
Agree with all sediments on Hines from previous 2 posts. Ben was the man. Got a little lucky on that would be safety, thought it was pretty awful of Ben to take that sack. Otherwise, love when he’s in control and needed it in this game.
Very important win with going into New England and Jacksonville to follow.
thav916
December 5, 2007
-New England is clearly a better team, but let’s not kid ourselves that the Steelers put forth their best performance. While I’m not Anthony Smith-ing anything, I think that a better performance can be expected if thee two teams meet again. For one, maybe by then Troy’s tummy ache will be gone. Like him or not, Polamalu is an integral part of the defense if for no other reason than it doesn’t expose how not yet ready for primetime both Carter and Smith really are. While there was plenty of other blame to go around for yesterday’s performance, and for me to do so would take about an hour, I think that the play of the secondary was poorest…although this was against Tom Brady.
-I am interested in seeing how “the men” respond after this ass kicking. Additionally, I’m interested in seeing how Tomlin and his staff respond, too. There is really no shame in losing at New England, even if it was by a lot. But the Steelers need to come home and get ready for a HUGE game with Jacksonville on Sunday. The Jags are every bit as good as the Steelers, which should make for a damn entertaining game. With only a 1-game lead on the Browns again (plus the tiebreaker, of course), the Steelers can’t afford to slip up in any of their 3 remaining games, all games that they should be favored and expected to win. Cleveland, meanwhile, gets Buffalo, at Cincy, and San Fran, so I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that the division is ours just yet.
-This loss essentially really doesn’t matter when you look at it. Due to our upset losses at Arizona, Denver, and N.Y. Jets, I think it’s safe to say that we weren’t going to catch Indianapolis, especially with their schedule being dotted with teams like Oakland and Houston. The #3 seed should be the goal (avoiding New England for as long as possible): avoid Jacksonville in the first round and then take the show on the road to Indy and New England, like we had to do when we won it all.
-I’m really excited about the game this week. Jacksonville plays such a similar game to Pittsburgh that I think it’s really going to be a stern test of mettle. Garrard is better than I ever could have imagined, and the Jags continue to be able to pound the rock. Their defense is stellar, as always. However, I fully expect the Steelers to maintain their homefield advantage, rise to the occasion, and win the game. Let’s forget about New England and start focusing on Jacksonville.
Raible
December 10, 2007
Thoughts on the game:
-Perfect illustration of why consistent execution trumps occassional splash at the safety position. Much like linemen, true deep safeties are generally taken for granted until their replacement wets the bed. Hopefully Smith learns from this. A free safety needs to think like a coach out there, and overcommitting on what turns out to be playaction against a team like New England isn’t an acceptable gamble. The downside of playing it safe is an extra yard or two for Maroney, but the downside of Smith’s aggression was a touchdown. The early runs by the Pats turned out to be strategic in nature, as they gained only modest yardage but paid off in an easy touchdown. New England is great at identifying weaknesses and making you pay for them.
-I came away unimpressed with the Pats defense. The Steelers had several nice drives, and most of our failures were do to individual mistakes rather than unit-wide failure. Faneca gave up a pathetic sack to Wilfork that snuffed out one drive and penalties burned us another time. It’s unfair to blame the Steelers for the red zone meltdowns without crediting the Pats, but I think it’s a stretch to give them the bend-but-don’t-break label. At the outset of the 2nd half I started to feel like it was the ‘95 Super Bowl against Dallas. We had weathered the first half and were starting to wear down the opposing defense. Unfortunately we couldn’t find the endzone, and against New England if you fall behind their scoring pace you’re dead.
The final analysis:
If we meet again I expect the Pats to win. But since that’s what I thought against the ‘05 Colts, here’s some optimism.
In the first half the Pats had 6 possessions to the Steelers 2. Pats had two touchdowns, one field goal, and three 3-and-outs. We had one touchdown, two field goals, and one 3-and-out. Not much to complain about there.
In the second half it fell apart. Some combination of the Pats O getting it together and the Steeler D completely melting down led to three straight scoring drives to finish us off. Meanwhile the Steeler offense started with two 3-and-outs followed by two 56 yard drives that each ended in zero points at the 1 and 21 yard line. That’s basically the whole game.
Like I said before, the one positive I take away from the game is that we drove inside the New England 30 in five out of nine serious possessions. The finishing yardline and points from those drives: 5-3, TD, 26-3, 1-0, 21-0. Almosts don’t matter. One of the many things the Pats do better than other teams is finish drives. But if we put together drives like that again I expect more points.
Other potential areas of improvement?
-Obviously staying at home in the secondary. Who’s to say the Pats wouldn’t have simply driven down our throats had those two big plays failed, but who knows?
-Catching a break wouldn’t hurt either. Bad luck is NOT why we lost, and the Pats tend to make most of their own breaks, but they also have a serious horseshoe wedged up their ass. Horrible punt by the Pats- hits a Steeler and Pats recover. Pats returner boots kickoff- Pats recover. Pats swap first rounders with a rising team- Niners implode and are on their 3rd QB. I’m joking around (sort of) but if we could be the team to catch a break or two come the playoffs it would be a big help against a superior opponent.
-Also can we maybe make a defensive adjustment at some point? Just askin.
Look, they beat our ass. But so did the Colts in ‘05 (26-7, week 12). The beauty of the NFL is that you always gotta win 3 more come January.
thegreatawakening
December 10, 2007
Yuck, I just saw those bombs again. Get it together Smith. Biting on a Pats playaction is like biting on a Ben Wallace pump fake 3.
thegreatawakening
December 10, 2007
Aaron Smith is out for the season…ouch! Good teams, though, find a way to overcome injuries, so Smith’s injury should provide an opportunity for Kirschke, Eason, or McBean. I know it’s probably not possible, but I would love to see Hoke slide to the outside and play on the line with Hampton and Keisel.
This injury is bringing to light, at least for me, the fact that some of our players simply need to step it up a bit heading into the showdon with Jacksonville. Willie Colon should have Max Starks breathing down his neck by now, and so should Nate Washington, too, with Willie Reid. There was some talk about moving Deshea to Safety a few weeks back, and I’m not totally against such an idea after seeing how poorly the safeties played against New England; moving Deshea to Safety also opens up a spot for B-Mac. Allen Rossum should also be feeling some heat, at the very least on Punt Returns, as he just doesn’t seem able to get going. I have no problem keeping Rossum on for Kickoffs, but I think it’s time for Reid to see a little action on Punts.
An interesting thing that I heard yesterday: Moving Simmons to Center, Moving Colon to Guard, Putting Starks in at Tackle, and Putting Mahan on the bench. While certainly interesting (although I’m not sure that Colon is better than Mahan anyway), I can’t imagine that such a situation could take place until the offseason. To boot, the Steelers seem to be grooming Stapleton…but you never know.
Raible
December 12, 2007
How about that Pens-Flyers game last night, eh? Ben Eager is such a douche bag…good to see him get his ass kicked by Gary Roberts. I can guarantee you, Anthony Smith, that Eager is going to have to answer to big Georges when these teams tangle again in January.
All in all, last night’s game was one of the reasons why I love hockey. If you’re getting your ass kicked, you just go out there and literally try to kick the other team’s asses. Right or wrong, I kept yelling at the TV on Sunday, hoping that one of the Steelers would start some shit with someone from the Patriots. It might be poor sportsmanship, but if you’re getting shown up, then drop an atomic leg drop on Brady’s neck or some shit. But, that’s neither here nor there.
WAY off subject…last night on Sports Unfiltered, Dennis Miller had on Forrest Griffin, Chuck Liddell, Bill Romanowski, Jeremy Roenick, and Larry Holmes. They were talking about why their respective sports were the toughest. Good stuff, obviously, but it no doubt brings up a good question: Whose sport has the toughest athletes? I think that it’s somewhat unfair to compare MMA and Boxing to team sports, but for the sake of last night’s argument, I think that Forrest and the Ice Man had the best case.
Raible
December 12, 2007
Not too much to say about today’s game. Once again, the Steelers just flat out got beat by a better team. Like it or not, but Jacksonville is, as Coach Douche likes to call them, the more “violent team.” The Jag-offs dominated in the trenches, although with that being said, why didn’t Willie Parker get more than the 14 attempts (for 100 yards) than he got? Ben played relatively well, Hines made up for his drop with his TD catch. But the O-Line continues to look like Swiss cheese and the defense was nowhere to be found today. INT or not, I’m not a big fan of Anthony Smith. On a positive, Troy played pretty well in his first game back.
So, what does this all mean? Well, for starters, the “men” have yet to clinch a playoff spot. To boot, the “men” are now tied with Cleveland for 1st place in the AFC North. In addition, the “men” are now staring at the real possibility of finishing 4th in the AFC, which would more than likely mean a rematch with Jacksonville before a potential rematch at New England. It sure would have been nice to get that #3 seed, play Cleveland or someone else, and get Indy before having to deal with the Pats again. While it’s not a dead issue yet, how bad are those Arizona/Denver/Jets losses looking right now? It should be stated, however, that Cleveland, too, lost to Arizona and at a lesser AFC West team (Oakland). But, the Browns took care of business in beating the Jets, and that’s the one loss that is really hurting right now.
No time to sit and sulk. The “men” take back to the field on Thursday night against what should be a game Rams squad, especially now that Bulger and Jackson are back. I feel absolutely no confidence heading into that game. Furthermore, I have absolutely no plans of even putting the game on until the Pitt-Duke game is over (Pens-Bruins are on, too, at 7:00 PM).
Raible
December 17, 2007
Sucks to come all the way back and then just get pounded on the last drive. Reminiscent of Denver. Not like it’s easy, but it’d just be nice to see the defense make a play, make a stop and keep the game going.
Marvel Smith sucks. 4 of the 5 sacks given up were by him. MAX!!!
I don’t think Aaron Smith is necessarily any better than Hampton or Polamalu, but I think the difference is in our depth. It’s not too big of a deal when Hampton or Polamalu are out because we have backups like Hoke and Carter. But Smith? Travis Kirschke and Nick Eason just don’t seem to get it done. Really sucks that guys like Shaun Nua and Orien Harris were complete zero’s. And what sucks even more is how I think this shows how we might be further off than we realize. Maybe it’s exaggerating, but I feel like just when I’m 100% sure are top 2 needs are O-line and WR, it appears as if we can’t forget about DE. O-line is more than one position so that’s like 3 or 4 needs right there. And I know a lot of people like to put CB up there as well, although I think below the other three for sure.
thav916
December 17, 2007
How bout a little Willie Reid action, too?
thav916
December 17, 2007
Oh, in addition, anyone else feel like our scouting department completely missed the boat on Anthony Smith?!? Not even the type of player he is, which can be argued either way, but the type of person he is. He just isn’t a Steeler in my opinion. Still could be a nice player. Looked completely lost recently. Ryan Clark going down seems larger than we could have imagined.
thav916
December 17, 2007
Big news from the Post-Gazette:
“Apparently, the Steelers coaches saw enough deep pass completions over the past two games to make a change to the starting lineup. Tyrone Carter will replace Anthony Smith at free safety.”
Raible
December 19, 2007
One thing I don’t understand about this site, is posting something that we all know and then giving no opinion of it. I’m not trying to come down hard, but there are basically three of us Steeler fans on this site and we probably all knew about switching to Tyrone Carter. Just far too often it seems like everyone’s on their own agenda on this site, posts what they want and then doesn’t post in regards to other people’s thoughts. Anyway, I’m glad this move is being made. It can’t hurt. In general I like to see Smith penalized for how he’s acted, let alone how he’s played. In no way am I saying this is some kind of genius move Bill Cowher wouldn’t have made and comparing the two, but one thing Cowher was often criticized for was for sticking for players too long. Maybe it was veterans and this is completely opposite, but just saying it’s nice to see a move done when whatever we have out there is clearly not working. And it’s not like we’ve tried anything different on the o-line so I’m also not saying that Tomlin is the master of changes. I hate playing a team like the Rams that probably should be better than they are, have completely sucked this year, and now seem to be healthy, playing at home and on nationval (kinda) tv against us. We gotta come out strong and it’d be nice to see about 10 sacks tonight.
thav916
December 20, 2007
Bill Cowher is the man, Mike Tomlin sucks, and here’s some more opinionless information:
The Steelers welcomed the return of several injured players to their practice yesterday morning, including some starters. Ike Taylor, who left the game Sunday against Jacksonville with a knee injury, went through a full practice after missing practice Tuesday. He likely will start at cornerback. Defensive end Travis Kirschke (ribs) also put in a full practice and, like Taylor, is listed as probable and should start. Linebacker Clark Haggans (knee) is listed as questionable, even though he went through a full practice yesterday. Scratched for the game are starting left tackle Marvel Smith (back) and backup linebacker Clint Kriewaldt (neck). Also, backup linebacker Andre Frazier (groin) is questionable after going through a limited practice, and wide receiver Nate Washington (ankle) is probable after putting in a full practice. Rookie LaMarr Woodley would make his first start at left outside linebacker if Haggans cannot go.
Merry Christmas T-Hav!
Raible
December 20, 2007
I don’t get it
thav916
December 20, 2007
Wow, what a night to be a Pittsburgh sports fan last night. I didn’t have any choice but to go to Quaker Steak and Lube, partake in some wing-eating and beer drinking, and keep my head on a swivel the entire night. Pitt beats Duke in OT (but lose Mike Cook in the process), the Pens beat the Bruins in a Shootout(after blowing a 4-goal lead and watching Sid beat down our old buddy Andy Ference), and the Steelers beat the Rams (but lose Willie Parker in the process). Lots of food, lots of beer (I’m feeling it this morning here at work), and lots of good TV watching!
Raible
December 21, 2007
Speaking of Parker’s injury, any chance we’ll get to see Haver’s BOY Gary Russell now? Obviously, it looks like Najeh is going to step into the featured back role, but the Steelers will need to figure out who will back him up. I wouldn’t be surprised if Verron Haynes gets another call to come in and fill his old role of 3rd down back. As great as Willie is, I’m excited about what Najeh can potentially bring to the table; Najeh is clearly more of an old-time Steelers RB, built in the mold of a Franco Harris, Barry Foster, Bam Morris, and Jerome Bettis.
Raible
December 21, 2007
I’m actually somewhat excited to see what Najeh can do as well. I was thrilled when he signed witht he Steelers, as I had always wanted him throughout his time in Green Bay. If you recall we actually lucked into signing him after his release as we and the Dolphins had a three day headstart on the rest of the league due to our Thursday night opening game. He ended up signing over the weekend. One thing I’ve learned in the time we have had him is that he has more luck in open-field situations than as a snowplow. He’s still a solid short yardage guy, but I’m most impressed with his pass-catching ability. The Rams could highlight anyone’s skills, but I think Davenport might have some success in the playoffs, particularly if we can avoid or get by Jacksonville.
Looks like we signed Haynes, which I’m happy about since I never wanted him to leave. The knee is an issue we’re not knowledgable about, but if he is healthy and back to full strength I don’t think we’ll miss a beat on third down.
I’m interested in what you guys think, but personally I’d like to treat this week as a bye for everyone who’s nicked up or mans a thin position. I can live with a quarter or so at full strength, but I really don’t want to see Ben, Najeh, Santonio, Marvel, Hines, and Troy out there hardly at all. I suppose that means we’ll get a look at Russell and Davis, as well as Haynes. We still want to win the game, so perhaps we can leave the starters in to see if we can build a quick lead. Realitically against Troy Smith, Musa Smith, and a team who doesn’t seem to have the will to compete (especially with the division wrapped up), I expect to win no matter who plays.
thegreatawakening
December 25, 2007
Quick hitters:
-To add to my thoughts on the running game, while I don’t think Davenport is as good as Willie, I do think it’s possible that if he gets into a groove he can wear down a defense like the Jags’ more effectively than Willie. Willie had gotten his swagger back somewhat recently, but he still would start to look worn down and a little bit tenative against stiff run defenses. I’m looking forward to seeing what Davenport has.
-On the Tomlin press conference show this week, Bouchette said that when Maddox had his falling out with Cowher after the Super Bowl (he didn’t even go to the White House with the team) he stormed out of Cowher’s office one day, and screamed “I SAVED YOUR FUCKIN’ JOB!” in front of everyone. I thought this was hilarious. And it’s true. It’s easy to remember Tommy as the guy who threw that shitty pick to Mathis when Ben was hurt, and somehow lost to the expansion Texans, but he also gave the franchise a much needed spark and played a part in some epic battles. The playoff comebacks against Cleveland and Tennessee (when we lost on the kicker crap)were all Tommy, and I wouldn’t have traded him for Brady in those games. Getting Ben, and Ben getting into the lineup asap, were the best things to happen to the franchise since the dynasty, but Maddox made shit happen for us and I think it sucks that he’s never mentioned in a positive way.
-Bucs signed Chris Gomez for $1M. Why? What is this guy possibly going to add that a AAA midlle infielder wouldn’t have. Realistically he can’t be expected to add a single win to our record. The Bucs are lighting a million dollars on fire. If every time they were about to make a move like this there was a team advisor who would step in, take the money, stockpile it in an investment account, and put a minor leaguer on the roster instead, the Bucs would be able to sign a legitimate player every 7-10 years. I’m completely serious. There is going to be zero return for this million dollar investment.
thegreatawakening
December 25, 2007
Gary Russell era needs to begin.
I like Najeh. Carey Davis had a couple of solid runs against the Rams. I’m hoping Verron Haynes didn’t miss a beat. O-line will dictate how well the running game does more than Willie vs no Willie.
Starks should start at QB.
thav916
December 26, 2007
Going back to what Dean suggested a few days ago, I agree that this game needs to be treated as one in which the starters need to receive some rest. Let the “men” go out there, build a lead against the pathetic Ravens, and get them the hell out of the game. Also, Tomlin and his staff should keep an eye on the scoreboard; if the Chargers are kicking the Raiders’ ass, as they should, then there’s absolutely no reason to have Ben and the boys on the field.
Raible
December 27, 2007
Do you guys think that Colon is on his way to Guard next year? It seems like a lot of Mock Drafts that I have read has the Steelers taking an OT and moving Colon to Guard to replace Faneca. The potential position flexibility with Colon could be beneficial, especially if Simmons can move to Center should the team decide that Mahan isn’t the answer.
The team obviously has some holes to fill (O-Line, depth at D-Line, depth at WR, depth in Secondary, etc.), but I would love to see them take a potential impact OT in the first round (Jeff Otah, Sam Baker, etc.).
First things first, though, and it looks like both Ben and Marvel are out for Sunday’s game (Marvel potentially for the season). Much like Adam Eaton’s injury opens the door to more playing time for Brooks Orpik, Marvel’s injury will open the door for Haver’s boy Max Starks. I am looking forward to Starks seizing the opportunity, especially, if I am not mistaken, considering he is a looming free agent.
Call me crazy, but I am also looking forward to potential rematches with Jacksonville and New England. Look, people can attempt to analyze matchups as much as they want and all, but the fact of the matter is that you have to beat good teams in the Playoffs to win the Super Bowl. While the Jags and Pats are both very talented, I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that the Steelers could beat them both. On the other hand, if Jacksonville comes into Pittsburgh 2 times within a month and knocks off the Steelers, do we, as fans, really have anything to complain about?
The Playoffs are right around the corner, and they really should be sweet.
A couple additional Pittsburgh thoughts:
-Big win for Pitt over Duke, but at Dayton on Saturday is going to be very tough.
-Ty Conklin getting the start for the Pens tonight. It’s time for the Boys of Winter to start taking care of business and solidifying themselves as a legit playoff contender.
-The Pirates…well, at least they signed Chris Gomez, right?
-I had a dream that Terrelle Pryor committed to Penn State…yeah, it was more like a nightmare!
Season’s Greetings!
Raible
December 27, 2007
I really can’t tell if this is a joke or for real but I have been wanting Willie Colon at guard for about 6 years now. We drafted him at guard. He’s built like a guard. We’re gonna be losing Faneca next year and didn’t HAVE to resign Simmons. Have been wanting and saying Colon at guard forever.
thav916
December 28, 2007
DeJuan Blair is always mentioned but how bout how good Schenley was in general last year?!?!? Blair gets all the pub and deservingly so, but anyone notice DJ Kennedy thus far? Man I really wanted him to go to Duquesne but it looks like Pitt let a good one get away as well. Leading St Johns as a freshman in scoring with 12 ppg AND REBOUNDING at 8.1 rpg at only 6′6. Another 2 APG, under a block a game and almost 2 steals. What a team they were last year.
thav916
December 28, 2007
-One thing I heard was the possibility of moving Simmons to center and Mahan and Colon to guard (for next year). Assuming Marvel has been playing hurt, I could see the line playing much better next year with some minor re-tooling. It would be nice to address it through the draft, but I also think this should be the offseason where they make a free agent signing or two. It’s often mentioned that the Steelers never do that, but that’s exactly where Farrior, Hartings and Clark came from. What the Steelers don’t do is sign the high profile star whose team can’t afford after his best year. You get good value for your money by signing or drafting players who can be made more productive by your specific system and coaches. Taking that approach makes it tougher to sign or draft guys than simply signing the biggest name like the Redskins do, but between the draft and free agency I’m hoping we can find a fit or two.
-Speaking of the draft, we really need this to be a solid class, not so much to fill a quick hole or two for next year, but to restock several positions for the next 5-6 years. Quality depth is pointed to as the most overlooked component of the great teams, and a steady pipe of starting caliber replacement players allows us to let guys walk (Simmons?) and make more efficient use of our cap.
-I really don’t care if we get Jacksonville and New E again either. I’d prefer to play the Browns or Titans, but if we’re going to do any damage we’re going to need to get rolling, and getting rolling would be enough to get by the Jags. The Jags are good, and I like their style, but this whole “jags are the team to watch- they’re built for cold weather!”-thing is getting old. They are a tough team with consistent players, but we have something that they will never have- Big Ben. We’ve looked like crap, and if that doesn’t change it won’t matter.
-By the way I think the Pats are going to get beat.
thegreatawakening
December 28, 2007
I’m tired of the Jags as well but yet they came in and beat us at home so we really can’t say anything until we play them again. I’d love to play them. It’s not like I’m calling out the Patriots. But the Jags…they’re a real good team. But I’d love to match up with them at home again and see if it was a fluke or not. If we’d lose again we really couldn’t say anything. If we win, it’ll shut some people up.
Draft is very important for depth and we’ve been horrible lately as I’ve illustrated in the past but our season isn’t gonna last too much longer and then our draft and future talk can heat up.
Again, Simmons to Center and Mahan as backup G/C is something I’ve been calling for forever. It’s nice to see everything that I’ve been asking for for about 6 months be brought up by other people as ingenious ideas. Anyway, there’s always talk about Simmons at center and part of me just thinks that if it hasn’t happened by now then Simmons must not impress when he’s given a (small) chance at center. I’m a broken record but I wish we woulda tried more things in the preseason with our line. I think minor re-tooling could be ok, but we are the Pittsburgh Steelers, we need a stud center and need it bad.
Not only because I have his autographed jersey but it’s a shame Max doesn’t have one more year left on his contract. I’m hoping he looks good this Sunday, and I don’t think I’m biased in saying that I think he’s looked very good every time he’s played.
thav916
December 28, 2007
What can I rant about today?
-Things went from great to bad to worse for the Pitt Basketball team in a matter of a little more than a week. First, the Panthers upset Duke at MSG on ESPN, only to lose Senior Mike Cook in the process. Then, against a game Dayton squad, Pitt loses its most important player, Levance Fields, as they are getting their asses handed to them. Pitt now faces a remaining schedule without 2/3 of their starting backcourt, although Fields might be able to return by Tournament Time. It looks like Jamie is going to go with Ramon, Benjamin, Brown, Young, and Blair as his new starting five, with heavy minutes now being required of Wannamaker and Biggs. What was possibly shaping up as a Final Four campaign is now looking like a struggle just to get to the NCAAs. It will be interesting to see what happens this week against Lafayette and Nova.
-James Harrison as Steelers MVP? Give me a damn break! I like Harrison as much as the next guy, but who in the hell thinks he is more valuable to the team than some dude named Ben? If it wasn’t evident after watching yesterday’s debacle that Ben is by far our most valuable player, then I don’t know what else could convince someone.
-Speaking of the Men of Steel, I am really looking forward to Saturday night’s matchup with the Jagoffs. A home underdog in the Playoffs? Wow! In any case, I think the game is going to be a good one, regardless of whether the Steelers win or lose. Personally, I think it’s going to be 1 and done for Coach T, but the nice part about this year’s potential run is the fact that there really is no pressure on the “men” to make a deep run. A similar feeling was had a few years ago, when the Steelers, as the #6 seed, simply decided to go ahead and win the whole f’n thing!
-Willie Parker breaks his leg. Mike Cook tears his ACL. Levance Fields breaks his foot. Gary Roberts breaks his leg. It’s a tough time to be a Pittsburgh athlete right now!
-As for the Pens, my main man Ty Conklin has really stepped up as the flightless fowl look like they are making their run to the top of the Atlantic Division. Tomorrow’s Winter Classic should be sweet, as should Saturday’s fray against Florida (coupled with the Steelers game, it should be an amazing night in the Burgh!).
-The Buccos…uh, nothing.
Raible
December 31, 2007
What’s the point to playin this weekend without Max in the lineup? Could be the most devastating loss in the history of the franchise.
thav916
January 2, 2008
I’m feeling 28-13 Steelers. But I think we need to unleash Benji early.
thegreatawakening
January 5, 2008
Elmer Dessens is BACK! WORLD SERIES!!!!!!!
I know Willie was good against the Jags in the first game (14-100) but lets hope Najeh’s style might be better suited against the Jags defense. Willie is a big loss, a very good running back and in there for a reason, but there have to be at least some teams where it’d be better to have a big back to use and this could be one of them. Could be the offensive line as much as anything and it’s not like Najeh is some type of guarantee to get 3-4 yards on every first down. Tough to remember exactly why the offense was so horrible last month against Jacksonville but it seemed like we started to come around when we unleashed Ben so I’m with Dean and hope to see that early and often.
Can we also please get some pressure/sacks/forced fumbles tonight, too?
No Aaron Smith, Ryan Clark, Willie Parker, Marvel Smith, Max Starks and maybe even Troy Polamalu. Exactly what I was hoping happened to the Patriots has happened to us.
I’m also fine with unleashing Gary Russell!
I’m with Mark Madden, when Tyler Kennedy scores the PA announcer needs to do the Mr Kennedy routine.
thav916
January 5, 2008
That was a tough one.
Everyone seemed to say the holding call on the 2 point conversion was awful. That’s disappointing. I hope to see a replay.
Thought it at the time but once we were back to the 12 yard line, an extra point for the guaranteed point seemed like a good option.
Larry Foote was flippin out for 5-10 minutes after that 4th down run. On the replay looked like he was held but not really near the play.
3rd and 6 QB run was wrong on so many levels
1. Maybe decent idea to run if Jags need a td and wasting clock or a TO is more important, but all they needed was a FG, HAD to TRY for the first down.
2. Being in the shotgun, Big Ben woulda basically had to run 11 yards for a first down. How bad would the Jags have been fooled for that to have even been accomplished?
3. Big Ben was on fire in the 2nd half. Gotta let him throw the ball
There’s not even a threat of Najeh returning a kick to the house.
So much for Najeh being an automatic 3-4 yard run.
5 WR sets included Ward, Holmes, Nate, Heath and Najeh. Don’t understand Najeh over Wilson.
Does Troy do anything other than run around?
I don’t know enough, but Zierlein and Ligashesky’s jobs must be seriously reviewed this offseason.
For the positive. Was great to see Ben in the 2nd half to show the world what he’s really about, Hines and Heath are so money, Jimmy Harrison is a beast and Lamarr Woodley can’t be blocked.
The “Quiet, Ben at Work” on the jumbotron is amazing.
We were certainly in the position to win, and the Jags might have been beaten up too, but tough to imagine Aaron Smith, Ryan Clark, Willie, Marvel, and Max not making a slight difference.
Offseason talk soon.
thav916
January 6, 2008
I’m still horrified by the strategy with the ball and 3 or so minutes to go. It just boggles my mind- how many consecutive first downs had resulted in another first down for us at that point? We ran 35 plays in the 2nd half before that possession and hadn’t needed to punt. To somehow decide we have no choice but to trade the ball for a couple timeouts and 30 seconds, and then pray for time to expire while the Jags are pulling out all the stops to go 30 yards? Who in their right mind honestly believed that the game was locked up to the point where that strategy made any sense at all? They couldn’t stop us! We stopped them and got the ball back! Game Over! And then we sit on the ball and cross our fingers? 2 and a half minutes is so much time it’s sickening. All I can add: 1. this isn’t 2nd guesssing, I puked immediately, 2. it’s not lose-lose for the coach, if you go for it and leave em with an extra TO no one would’ve cared cause it wouldn’t have mattered.
thegreatawakening
January 6, 2008
Things that will improve the team by next year:
-Troy playing with a functional arm (he can’t just be choosing not to tackle can he?)
-Woodley replacing Haggans (hey Haggans got in there!- oh wait he was offsides.)
-An offseason to address the line.
-Healthy ______.
New issues hit every team every year, but this year was particularly rough to the point where I considered yesterday’s game our superbowl.
thegreatawakening
January 6, 2008
I like to scan national message boards after big games like that just to see what the neutrals are saying….
-Tomlin was accused of playing Martyball on the last possession. Ouch. But True.
-Apparently the Foote complaint (hold on 4th and 2) was justified. I haven’t been able to watch the DVR yet to find out, due to pain not being busy.
-Same with the phantom hold on the 2-pointer to Hines. That was a head-scratcher in the first place considering we threw a fade. By the way I hate calling a fade on any critical goaline down. But anytime you throw to Hines Ward you can be forgiven.
-Jags roughed up the O-line without Stroud or a 100% Hendo. They deserve credit for that. Some are saying Faneca is the lone bright spot but I disagree. Faneca was bad.
-With the strange series of events in the 4th quarter (all the scoring, the 2-pt mucks, etc.) it’s easy to forget that we were in easy FG range when Ben threw the pick on that screen. That’s just brutal considering the ending. By the way Reed missed 2 FG this year- a 65 yarder and a 44 in the rain in the Dolphin game.
-Jags fans really want a solid FA receiver. Can’t blame them. Imagine the AFC this year if they had given the 4th rounder for Moss instead of New England.
thegreatawakening
January 6, 2008
I wanted to wait to post anything so that I could calm down and read what T-Hav and Dean had to say. Nevertheless, my feelings haven’t changed much from last night. As poorly as the team looked from time to time last night, the Steelers had the ball with less than 5 minutes in the game with a 1-point lead and couldn’t put the team away. And, while Jacksonville’s defense certainly rose to the occasion, if I have to place blame on this loss on one thing, I place it on (SURPRISE!) the coaching staff.
I have been against this coaching staff from Day One. I didn’t like the Tomlin hire, I didn’t like the staff he put in place (except for LeBeau), and I really wasn’t impressed with anything that the coaches accomplished through the entire season (a 10-6 record, after an 8-8 season, and people acted like this coaching staff had the best turnaround in NFL history). Nonetheless, I was willing to give Tomlin and his cronies a pass due to 2 reasons:
1. He is indeed a rookie coach that is OBVIOUSLY learning on the job – because he knew nothing when he took the job
2. Despite it all, the Steelers still win the AFC North and advanced to the Playoffs.
However, the play-calling through the entire game, especially late in the game, as pathetic at best. The Steelers marched right down the field on its opening possession, using the pass to set-up the run. So after yet ANOTHER lapse on Special Teams (yeah, they really fixed that problem), what do the Steelers do? Run Najeh on 3 of the 5 plays of the next series. Why not keep the game in the hands of your best player, Mr. Ben Roethlisberger?
Say what you will about the 2-point conversion attempts, but I think you can go either way with the idea to go for 2 on either occasion. What bothered me was the play-calling. I hate any fade that isn’t thrown to Larry Fitzgerald or Randy Moss, so needless to say I wasn’t happy with either fade pass (to Hines or Nate). And having Ben scramble (according to Ben last night, it was a designed scramble) from the 12 is just plain stupid.
One day, these dumbass coaches will come to the realization that Najeh Davenport isn’t capable of bouncing it to the outside like Willie Parker can, which is exactly what was attempted on 2nd down of the Steelers’ next-to-last possession. And the designed Ben scramble, ONCE AGAIN?!?!, on 3rd down was just plain retarded.
I want to make it known that I am not placing the blame for this loss squarely on the coaching staff. Ben, for one, wants the blame on him…and he certainly deserves his share for his poor play in the first half. The defense, too, had an opportunity to rise to the occasion at the end of the game…but couldn’t. The Special Teams, except for Jeff Reed and Daniel Sepulveda (by the way, where the hell was James Harrison on Special Teams in the first half???), was pretty much pathetic all year long…Rossum sucks, Reid sucks, and Ligashesky REALLY sucks!
This game is just such a tough pill to swallow because the game was there for the taking. And anyone who says it’s better to lose in the Wild Card Round than the Divisional Round is just plain dumb; I have actually heard this rationale from some fans in the last 24 hours, saying how we would have lost to the Pats or the Colts anyway, so what’s the big deal…right, and the Steelers had no chance of beating the Colts a few years ago, too, right?
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH…that game pissed me off so bad.
Here’s hoping that Coach “T” shakes up the coaching staff a bit (I would LOVE to see Arians go, but I realize it’s doubtful. Ligashesky has to go, though!) and can actually learn something from this loss and this season that wasn’t nearly as good as some fans seemed to think (this, assuming of course, that Tomlin has the mental capacity to learn and retain any kind of knowledge). To his credit, though, I liked his fire before the game, I liked it during the game, and I liked it after the game when the dumbass media members were asking him if he would take back the 2-point conversion attempts if he knew the team was going to lose by 2…pretty much the dumbest and most obvious question ever, to which Tomlin responded solidly.
I can’t speak for Madden or anyone else, but I, for one, definitely scream “KENNEDY” at the top of my lungs virtually anytime Tyler Kennedy touches the puck! Another big win for the Pens yesterday!
The Pitt-Nova game today was disappointing. 20+ turnovers, including one on the final possession, really demonstrates how badly Pitt needs Fields. Nevertheless, neither Jamie Dixon nor I am going to sit here, feel sorry for ourselves, and make excuses. Just like the Steelers, Pitt had the chance to win the game at the end and couldn’t execute. Hopefully, the Panthers bounce back at USF on Wednesday night.
Pirates….uhhhhhh, still nothing!
Raible
January 7, 2008
-Who acted like this season was the single best turnaround in NFL history? If you don’t think the staff contributed very much to our success that’s fine, but the coaches have received the standard amount of credit/blame throughout the season in my opinion.
-I liked and still like the Tomlin hire. There will be a period od learning and adjustment, and it will also take some time to put together the roster and staff that Tomlin is comfortable with. I don’t know if he likes Arians or not, but I don’t think we should judge Tomlin’s performance as if this year was the culmination of a few seasons of work. Let’s see who’s on the team and staff and what kinds of strategies we’re using in 2010. To use the Parcells analogy, Tomlin came into a kitchen with someone’s leftover groceries and spent his first season experimenting with the old chef’s recipies, testing out the appliances, and figuring out what to buy on his next couple trips to the grocery store.
-As for the season……..we went 10-5 and then gave away a meaningless game, so rather than call us a 10-6 team I prefer to say we won the division but missed the bye and leave it at that. Then we lost a tight game to a team that went 11-4 (same story) playing in the best division in the best conference. For a transistion year that’s not too bad in my book. The cubboard was not bare so I’m not saying Tomlin’s a miracle worker, but it’s unfair to expect much more when one of our prime units (the offensive line) was certifiably dysfunctional. Cowher knew we weren’t a player away from another ring when he decided to leave. The linebackers were addressed last year, in a move that was far from a no-brainer at the time but looks very smart right now and I expect more manuvering theis spring followed by another successful regular season, and if luck is with us, a shot at the super bowl.
-As for Arians…..I’m torn on the guy. I still think come of his calls are just perfect based on the flow of the game. The rollout at the goaling where Ben dumped off to Davis against the grain (he dropped it) was just the perfect call considering how the drive had gone. There were other examples that I saw that make me belive that BA *might* be the guy- but it’s hard to tell because you’re never sure who’s making what decisions. I’ve made it clear that I absolutely hated the strategy in the final few minutes. (Although it’s unfair to say that Davenport’s run was designed to go outside- there was a hole inside that he avoided, turning a 2 yard gain into a 1 yard loss). But I’m blaming Tomlin rather than Arians. While there have been some stretches where I’ve hated Arians, I think he deserves a lot of credit for Ben’s comfort with his system and the breakout year he’s has (#2 rating in the NFL).
thegreatawakening
January 7, 2008
-Who acted like this season was the single best turnaround in NFL history? If you don’t think the staff contributed very much to our success that’s fine, but the coaches have received the standard amount of credit/blame throughout the season in my opinion.
I watched every post-game show known to man last night, from douche bag John Fedko to the NFL Network’s. And every single post-game show wanted to accentuate the supposed amazing turnaround that Tomlin and the Steelers experienced this season, as if the team was 4-12 last year and went 13-3 this year. What was even more annoying was the fact that some of the so-called “experts” wanted to give the Steelers every excuse known to man rather than being critical. I watched every show last night waiting for someone to be critical, and no one had the balls to do so (actually, Ben, of all people, was probably the most critical of the Steelers’ play last night of anyone I heard). I don’t think that Mike Tomlin is a kind of guy who is willing to make excuses, so no one else should do it for him. Besides, Jacksonville was missing some guys, too, and I am sure that there were some calls that Jaguars fans felt went against their squad. The Steelers flat out controlled their own destiny in the game, and they didn’t get the job done.
Look, I’m not saying that any coach in America could have done a better job than Tomlin and his staff did this season (I said as much in my previous post, citing the fact that he was a rookie coach and won the division). And slice and dice up the final game all you want, but it still counted and the Steelers did indeed have 6, not 5, losses; saying that game shouldn’t count is like saying the opening game win over the Browns shouldn’t have counted because Cleveland was a dramatically different team after that game. As Herm said, “you play to win the game!”
In any case, what I am saying is that a 10-6 season, coupled with an AFC North Division Title, is at best OK. Maybe I’m spoiled from all of the success that Noll and Cowher had, but going 1 and done in the Playoffs just doesn’t cut the mustard, especially in a game that was in the team’s hands but let it get away (Tomlin said as much in his press conference after the game).
I don’t like Tomlin, while Dean and Haver do. As a result, I am naturally going to be more critical while Dean and Haver are going to be more supportive. It’s really not all that big of a deal so long as the Steelers are winning. Win they did not last night, however, so that’s the reason for my criticism. And, for the most part, that criticism is being pointed at the play-calling…whether or not that should be Tomlin or Arians, who really knows?
Of course, Tomlin receives a bit of a pass for now being a young coach and taking over a team that wasn’t “his.” But no one can convince me that the Steelers aren’t every bit as good as Jacksonville. For that reason, I am extremely disappointed and critical this day after the Steelers’ season came to an end.
Raible
January 7, 2008
Ya the only thing I really don’t understand is Raibs posted that he’d wait to cool down and read mine and Dean’s but then it didn’t seem like you read ours. A lot of us are mad about the exact same things and we all seem to feel pretty similar about the game last night.
I also hate fade patterns.
I was thinking same thing as Deano about the coaching turnaround comment. I haven’t heard anyone that thinks that in the first place to then correct it. And obviously Raibs has, and you read more than I do, but it has to be an incredibly small minority of people that have said/think that. The majority, and anyone knowledgeable has been more accurante. Therefore I feel like that’s like listening to one person say Michael Vick is the best QB in the game and then saying how dumb everyone is for thinking that.
I think you guys value coaching a lot more than I do so I think if we talk coaching we’re gonna be comin from different ballparks and have different theories. I mean, if Cowher is the greatest man ever and Tomlin is a moronic rookie coach, then how does our team finish two games better? If Cowher was a genius and he left, shouldn’t we be automatically much worse because our coaching won’t be as good? And by no means am I saying Tomlin did some kind of job 10x better than Cowher could dream of. Loved Cowher. Love Tomlin. The answers are simple, Ben Roethlisberger, our QB, played better.
I hate how everything seems to turn in to a Cowher vs Tomlin thing. Cowher won games, lost games, made good calls and decisions, made bad calls and bad decisions. Made sweet comments, gave a whole lotta bullshit answers. Tomlin has done each of the same. As a rookie coach and 35 years old, if so much value is placed on how great a coach is, then I don’t think it can be expected for a rookie coach to be as good as one of the most successful coaches in the past 25 years.
I like the acknowledgement from Raibs that he liked some of the things from Tomlin yesterday (and the fire, passion and flipping out at the press conference were two GREAT things). There’s not much that I hate than people hating just because and not giving credit because they refuse to. I like Tomlin. I think he is far from perfect. If he was the person that called the 3rd and 6 run, or even if he knew about it and allowed it, I think it is absolutely horrible. Disgusting. Pathetic. But it doesn’t really change my opinion of him. All I can hope is that he learns and grows as a coach.
I think Dean brought up that few people think back to the missed fg opportunity at the end of the first half. I’m not arguing that at all, but I’m also more in the camp of Raible’s point that regardless of everything that happened, good or bad, we were winning by 1 with 3 minutes left and the ball (and not saying you’re not Dean, as I think you were simply bringing up another point). I tend to look at the last possible mistake rather than the first one because if that kick return is differnt, or interception, or penalty call, etc, then who knows what else happens. Up 1, our ball, able to close out the game with a first down or two. And we didn’t convert. It’s that simple.
I’m also alright with Arians. I thought our offense was good enough this year to not hate him. I liked Whisenhunt, our offense was good with him. Everybody makes good calls and bad calls. But I didn’t think either was considerably better than the other. The two areas that were just clearly worse were O-line and Special Teams. No one knows the exact percentages but some kind of combination of Grimm + Hartings + injuries really added up to something nobody liked. And special teams…man I don’t know why it was so bad. While I suppose it’s huge to have bigtime special teamsers, that seems like one area where coaching is really important. Out of the whole coaching staff, Ligashesky was clearly the one with the most question marks when brought in (and maybe ex-Bengal Ken Anderson) and he certainly did nothing to prove the question marks incorrect. That Parcells-Dean thing is SO DEAN, but as whacky as it is I think it’s great.
All things considered this was a great season. With success brings high expectations and I think as fans we’re never happy. Things coulda been better but also coulda been worse. I’d say the two most important things this year for our future are that Tomlin showed he can handle his own and Roethslisberger is back to being a top 5 QB in the league. I don’t want to say Tomlin will be as successful as Noll/Cowher but I also think it’s ok saying he’s not Art Shell or Mike Tice. And a top 5 QB should continue to mean success for the franchise.
thav916
January 7, 2008
That last post was obviously written before I read Raibs’s last post.
I still disagree with the coaching turnaround thing. If John Fedko told me 2+2 was 4 I might start to think it equaled 5. I guess tons of people are gonna have opinions. I also hear a lot and still didn’t hear that that often. I think the point of Tomlin supporters vs anti Tomlin is probably the most valid. We’re gonna be able to twist and turn things the way we want.
I just like to think I’m a little more unbiased. The main thing I hate with the Tomlin critiquing is that I feel like people that loved Cowher thought he did no wrong. And I can’t say enough that I liked Cowher. My hope last year was that he’d stay 3-5 more years and then retire forever. The funniest thing for me, and this goes to show how much I care about coaching, the reasons I ever say I got tired of Cowher are because in press conferences I thought he gave horrible answers. The reasons I enjoy Tomlin are because how sweet his shirts and shades are. Not exactly serious issues and far from actual coaching.
That’s fine to not be happy with the Steelers season. But Cowher went 0-1 in the playoffs in his first season. 0-1 in his second. 1-1 in third. 2-1 in fourth. 1-1 in each of his next two. Didn’t make the playoffs the next three. 1-1 2 more straight years before missing the playoffs. 1-1. Then won the Super Bowl. Then missed the playoffs in his final year. So to act like Tomlin losing in the first round of the playoffs is something that’s never happened before is just something I simply do not get.
The worst part of this whole thing, is that we’re all Steelers fans and I feel like every discussion we have gets further and further away from actual Steeler talk and agreeing on things and closer and closer to heated arguments where people get unnecessarily mad.
thav916
January 7, 2008
To lighten the mood a tad……IS THERE ANY BIGGER BURGH NEWS THAN JOHN STEIGERWALD RETURNING TO WTAE AFTER 22 YEARS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!
One can only hope he does as huge of things as he did in his previous tenure with Channel 4……..
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uDWAOkTK5l4
thav916
January 7, 2008
“All things considered this was a great season. With success brings high expectations and I think as fans we’re never happy. Things coulda been better but also coulda been worse. I’d say the two most important things this year for our future are that Tomlin showed he can handle his own and Roethslisberger is back to being a top 5 QB in the league. I don’t want to say Tomlin will be as successful as Noll/Cowher but I also think it’s ok saying he’s not Art Shell or Mike Tice. And a top 5 QB should continue to mean success for the franchise.”
This paragraph is how I feel. We had a lot of things in flux in a competitive league, yet won most of our games and our division. (Yes the 16th game counted. All I’m saying is that if week 17 matters next year and we beat the Ravens to go 11-5 it won’t be a better season than this year, at least in the way that I value). To me that’s the big picture. The little picture right now is that if Tomlin would’ve kicked the PAT, or if the refs had called a hold, or if Ben hadn’t thrown that 3rd pick, etc etc. we probably would’ve beat another solid NFL team and moved on to the the 2nd round. But back to the big picture: last season ended with our QB looking shaky, our 2 main rivals looking better than us, and with our team having to find a new head coach- a process which usually doesn’t work out too well in the NFL. Lots of question marks and reasons for pessimism. This year has ended with griping about the effect that injuries and playcalling had on our playoff performance, and our questions are about how to patch up our offensive line and special teams. That’s progress, and it occurred in a year where it wasn’t fair to expect it.
***
I’m a little surprised by the pessimism expressed on the two local around the horn type Sunday night shows.
I’m hearing that the offense is in big trouble for one. Why? What positions should we expect regression from? Losing Fanmeca or not I can’t see the line playing any worse. Sometimes it’s nice when a unit is so poor that you can’t overlook it, and I expect an offseason shake-up for sure. Ben is a probowler. So is Parker. Ward is right there, and Santonio and Heath are on the cusp. If the line improves it’s an elite unit. If not, well, we still lit it up this year.
On defense I see things the same way. Troy making the pro-bowl this year was laughable. The strong safety spot will provide better play next year even if the name stays the same. Clark returns at free and Smith at end. Our corners are respectable and all return. As I said I expect Woodley to have a Harrison-like impact in ‘08, and anything we get from Timmons will be a bonus. So again where’s the regression?
Bottom line is we were not a deep team this year. That’s just how it goes sometimes. You can’t always be stacked. As has been brought up, shallow drafts caught up with us- not so much in the starting 22 but on special teams and on the depth chart. I believe that we’re on the way back to being a deep, terrific team. If we make a decent mid-level signing or two we should be fine.
thegreatawakening
January 7, 2008
SHOCKING that Dean and Haver would agree on something?!?!
Haver: “All things considered this was a great season. With success brings high expectations and I think as fans we’re never happy. Things coulda been better but also coulda been worse. I’d say the two most important things this year for our future are that Tomlin showed he can handle his own and Roethslisberger is back to being a top 5 QB in the league. I don’t want to say Tomlin will be as successful as Noll/Cowher but I also think it’s ok saying he’s not Art Shell or Mike Tice. And a top 5 QB should continue to mean success for the franchise.”
Dean: “This paragraph is how I feel.”
In any case, I would rate this season as “Average.” As Haver pointed out before, it has become somewhat commonplace for the Steelers to make the Playoffs and not experience a great deal of success once they get there. If that is the norm, then this season fits that bill. However, it wasn’t good enough under Cowher and it isn’t good enough now. That’s not to say that Tomlin should be fired, though, which is what 274 of our fellow Steelers fans believe as of 2:00 AM on January 6, 2008 in an online Post-Gazette poll.
[The poll, by the way, asks "How would you rate Steelers coach Mike Tomlin's first season?" The choices are:
Successful - 19%
Average - 15%
Fire Him - 66%
I'm not saying that Steelers fans are smart, just throwing this out there for some fodder.]
As I said, I think that Tomlin had a very average season and, as I believe Steigy said tonight, the honeymoon is now over. Anything less than a Playoff berth next year will be extremely disappointing. Nevertheless, Tomlin has a 4-year deal with an option for a 5th, I think, and I believe that he should receive the chance to work through the end of that contract. If the team hasn’t improved at all on this season, then it will probably be time for a change; if the team is great, then we can extend him and start looking forward to a long Tomlin Era.
Despite what anyone might think, all of my banter this evening has absolutely nothing to do with Bill Cowher. The comment was made about comparing Tomlin to Cowher, and I am sure that it was directed at me, but nowhere in my original post was Cowher’s name mentioned. This is all about this team and this coaching staff. My bottom line is that I think the season, as a whole, was average…maybe even solid, but definitely not a success, in my opinion. And the performance of the coaching staff last night, in the biggest game of the season, was poor, at best.
Raible
January 7, 2008
In case anyone is curious, here is the link to the Tomlin poll on the Post-Gazette website:
http://www.post-gazette.com/polls/default.asp?pollID=2323
Results as of right now are a little more revealing, fair, and I would say accurate:
Successful – 842 (44%)
Average – 669 (35%)
Fire him – 411 (21%)
A 44% success rate sounds about rate.
I was thinking today, and I think another reason why I am so upset with the performance of this year’s squad is because the window of opportunity for this Steelers team has pretty much now closed. And, let it be known, that I believe Cowher deserves as much of the blame as does Tomlin.
The window of opportunity, in my opinion, was opened with the drafting of Ben Roethlisberger, judged by many to be the best QB taken by the Steelers since Terry Bradshaw. Due to injury, Ben was forced into immediate action as a rookie. Ben did not disappoint, though, as he lead the Steelers to a 15-1 record and a spot in the AFC Championship Game. The next season, the Steelers won the Super Bowl. The next, the Steelers went 8-8 and failed to make the Playoffs. This season, the Steelers went 10-6 and lost in the Wild Card Round.
I guess I can’t complain too much because the team did indeed win a championship during this window. And I also want to stress that I don’t think that the franchise’s window will ever be shut so long as #7 is under center. However, the core of these very good Steelers teams is beginning to disintegrate right before our very eyes.
Bettis retired after the Super Bowl. Randle El left via free agency. Porter was let go. Hartings retired. Faneca is as good as gone. Haggans is probably on his way out, while guys like Farrior and Marvel Smith have seemingly lost a step.
Now, good franchises simply roll with the punches and adjust, and it remains to be seen if this franchise is capable of doing that. And, like Haver said, maybe I have become spoiled by high expectations. But, this is Pittsburgh, home of 5 Super Bowl titles, and frankly, anything less than achieving that is a disappointment…and Cowher certainly had his mighty share of disappointments. But, so has Mike Tomlin now, and it will be interesting to see how he and the team responds.
I still don’t believe that this was a great season, as both Haver and Dean stated. That doesn’t mean that Tomlin should be shit-canned, though, as some believe (frankly, it probably doesn’t mean that Arians should lose his job, either, as much as I’d like to see it). I think John Steigerwald put it best last night, though, that the honeymoon is over. Tomlin is no longer a rookie coach, and both he and his staff made some bad mistakes that perhaps cost the team a chance to win on Saturday night. He and his staff need to learn from their mistakes and move forward. Chuck Noll made mistakes but went on to win Super Bowls. Bill Cowher made mistakes but went on to win a Super Bowl. Mike Tomlin has to be given the benefit of the doubt as far as mistakes are concerned, and only time will tell if he will learn from them.
This is the last that I am going to critique the job done by Tomlin and his staff during the 2007 season. My bottom line is that I didn’t think Tomlin did anything good, but I didn’t think he did anything bad, either. I thought that a veteran-laden team went 10-6 and lost in the Wild Card Round, which by my accounts, is a disappointment…especially considering the way it happened and the decisions that were made by the coaching staff. I’m willing to move forward, though, and give Tomlin a few more years, as I mentioned last night, to prove to me that he has what it takes to be a successful coach in the NFL.
Looking forward, it’s going to be an interesting offseason. As I mentioned, Faneca seems to be as good as gone…which is sad no matter which side of the fence you sit on with this issue. The fact of the matter is that Faneca is one of the all-time great Steelers, and it would just be amazing if they could somehow work out their monetary differences. Nevertheless, the Steelers will have to figure out a way to replace him once he leaves.
The entire O-Line needs a good solid evaluation, and that includes Zierlein. Special Teams obviously needs even more attention than was given to it in last year’s training camp. Some decisions need to be made with guys like Haggans. And, of course, Ben needs to receive his much anticipated contract extension.
Here’s hoping to a more successful 2008 season for our Pittsburgh Steelers!
Raible
January 8, 2008
I’m not going to characterize the Steelers’ season as great in absolute terms. In a void, I suppose “great” would be better than good (a playoff berth, or more specifically surpassing mathmatical expectation) but fall short of triumphant (Super Bowl). Based on these absolute (though addmittedly made up) terms the Steelers had a good season. Let’s take a statistical look at the team’s accomplishments in a world devoid of context:
Win a four team division: 3 to 1 against
Win 10 games: 25% greater than the mean
In absolute terms this season meets the dictionary definition of better than average. It was a good year. If your point is that the ultimate goal of every season is to hoist the Lombardi, and that anything less is by definition a failure in that persuit, you are technically correct. But if a football fan awakes from a coma after 30 years, he will be quite pleased to open the paper and see that his team has won its division in the first year of a new regime.
Of course I’ve ignored the sea of context that engulfed the team this season. Certainly a 10-6 division title team in 2007 would rate differently in Miami, Pittsburgh, and New England. You’ve characterized the ‘07 Steelers as a veteran team, and have implied that the window is open for a title run. I’ve argued that this is a year of transition, and remind you that we were 8-8 last year. I think it’s unfair to list only my points or only yours. They are both fair and relevant footnotes for the team. Yet after all of the context had been noted and interpretted this offseason, I think anywhere between 7 and 11 wins would have come as no surprise, although most pundits may have put that range closer to 5-9 before the season. Tomlin and company didn’t have a great season in absolute terms or even against the backdrop of team expectations, but to say he did nothing good (or bad) shortchanges him in my opinion. I respectfully disagree with you and I’ll leave it at that.
Onto this nugget…
“I was thinking today, and I think another reason why I am so upset with the performance of this year’s squad is because the window of opportunity for this Steelers team has pretty much now closed.”
Some day I hope to quote you as I have here and proceed to sing your praises and elaborate on your points. Today is not that day!
We both want to win championships, so our differences regarding the evaluation of this season can probably be in large part written off as differing definitions of certain performance descriptors. But I’m just not with you at all on this comment.
“Bettis retired after the Super Bowl. PARKER? Randle El left via free agency. HOLMES? Porter was let go. HARRISON? Hartings retired. OKAY. Faneca is as good as gone. OKAY. Haggans is probably on his way out WOODLEY?, while guys like Farrior and Marvel Smith have seemingly lost a step. MAYBE.”
Keisel, Harrison, Holmes, Miller, Parker, Ben, Woodley, Troy, Foote, Taylor…..all terrific. Farrior, Ward, Townsend, Hampton and the Smiths all continue to play at a high level when healthy, which they mostly have been.
What scares me is that you’re not the only one I’m hearing this window thing from. I just don’t see it. This isn’t to say that I can’t possibly imagine a rough year in ‘08, because this is the NFL and anything is possible. But I feel like the team was in as much disarray as possible this last month and the result was a game against the Jags that we win with a better decision or two. (I hate to use the term outcoached or bad coaching to address a single play or two because so much goes into it.)
I think I’ve made my positions pretty clear and I respect the views of both of you. I just don’t see how we lose with a coach who uses terminology like “vertical disrupter” and “legitimate ball-toter.”
thegreatawakening
January 8, 2008
Faneca made All-Pro today…a fitting end to a fitting Steelers career!
Raible
January 9, 2008
Just so everyone doesn’t think I dislike people simply to dislike people, let it be known that I am extremely happy with Mike Tomlin’s comments today regarding this past season. According to Ed Bouchette, “Those who were less than satisfied with Mike Tomlin’s first season will be happy to know they have someone on their side — Mike Tomlin. Tomlin said in his final news conference that one thing he’s had trouble with is people congratulating him on a ‘great’ start in coaching. Great, he said, is winning the Super Bowl.”
I have been very critical of Tomlin thus far, and with good reason in my opinion. And, while I don’t like the fact that he said he intends to make ZERO changes to his coaching staff (HOW???), I really like the fact that he isn’t even remotely satisfied with being a One-and-Done kind of team. Good stuff!
Raible
January 10, 2008
Haven’t said much lately…
-Hate all of the injuries going around the Burgh lately: Crosby, Fields, etc.
-Not a big fan that Tomlin wants to keep everything exactly in place as last year.
-Not a big fan of the Pens dropping 2 in a row.
-Happy to see the Dukes being competitive in the A-10, which is a lot better conference than most people thought it would be (Go Xavier!).
-Tired of reading and listening about Terrelle Pryor. I can’t get enough of Jonathan Baldwin!
Raible
January 25, 2008
Ahhhhhh, lot’s goin through my mind lately with the Steelers so might as well throw them out there….
I disagree that our window is closing, but the reason was also said by Raible, that as long as we have Roethlisberger the window will be there. If you are thinking this though, I don’t blame Tomlin, nor do I blame Cowher…I blame Colbert and you can refer to my post on November 20, 2007 as to why. Out of the players Raibs mentioned left or leaving, there’s not one that I think we should have kept, so we’ve continued to make smart decisions (which is a plus for Colbert). What we’ve been slacking on is having the players in our system as replacements. In fact the last player, and one of the few in the history of my knowledge of the Steelers that I think we shoulda kept is Plaxico.
It appears as if we were arguing over the definition of great. Is it great, is it good, is it tremendous? Kind of amusing.
Tomlin’s desire to be the best and take nothing less is great. So is getting pissed off at the media.
As for the zero changes on the coaching staff, I have to try to look at this optimistically and hope it is confidence by Tomlin and not stubborness. Big difference in my opinion. Can any of us actually say the problems with the special teams and o-line were because of the coaching? I say emphatically NO. It COULD have been coaching, it COULD have been the players and nothing the coaches could do. To simply fire those two coaches if it’s not believed they were the causes would have made them scapegoats. Anyway, I hope it’s confidence in the coaching staff that they are the right men for the job and they will get better. If it’s stubborness and changes should have been made but Tomlin believes too much in his guys, it will be a strong strong negative for Tomlin in my eyes.
Now is anyone ready to talk some offseason?!? My brother and I talk pretty much daily on this but it’d be nice to get some offseason discussion going here.
One thing, this whole Ben vs Hines BS goin on. I can’t believe how big of a story this has become. I’m 100% behind Ben Roethlisberger and think Hines is being his usual Wines Hard-self.
An absolutely fantastic thing to hear about Tomlin at the Senior Bowl is that he parked himself in front of the big boys during the practices. Love hearing that. So often the weaknesses seem glaring for your team, but you wonder if the staff sees the same problems.
Two things that I really want to do are resign Max Starks and sign a free agent wide receiver.
-I’ll try to take the bias out of Starks, but I just believe if we don’t resign Max it almost makes a guard/tackle MANDATORY in the first/second round and I already think a Center is mandatory. Resigning Max gives us flexibility. Whether he’s the LT, or the RT and Colon moves to Guard, I think it’s important to do. He’s a good guy, never has complained, and is young. Not only do i think Marvel Smith is horrible but bottom line is he’s got one year left on his contract.
-As for the wide receiver, I always make it known that I want to improve our weapons for Ben. But with all of our other needs, I think it’d be tough to take a WR in the first 3 rounds. It doesn’t even matter what position it is…it’d be nice to make at least one signing in March to eliminate a need in the draft. This plan sounded pretty good and then seeing the free agent wide receiver list made it absolutely perfect. Bernard Berrian, Bryant Johnson, Justin Gage, Drew Carter, DJ Hackett, Ernest Wilford, Jabar Gaffney are all free agents. Lots of guys that I think would be EXACTLY what I’m lookin for. A guy with nice size…around 27yrs old…that wasn’t in a great role on his previous team…that wouldn’t be expensive…be the 3rd receiver from the beginning and then the 2nd receiver in 2-3 years with us.
Anyway, I think those two moves would give us great flexibility to do as we wanted in the draft.
It appears as if six tackles will be of first round quality…Jake Long, Ryan Clady, Sam Baker, Chris Williams, Jeff Otah, and Gosder Cherilus. Long will obviously be gone. I love Baker…being a true left tackle and pass protector first. Think about our line. Almost everyone we have on it was drafted for their run blocking first. With the way our team has become, I’d love someone drafted for their pass blocking first. Baker is the man for that. The others are a little bigger and a little rawer but could be good fits. It appears picking at 23rd we’ll have at least one, if not two or three of these guys to choose from. I can’t say enough, that I’m perfectly fine with taking the absolutely best player available at our pick and I think this could be at any position not named QB or TE. But it’s still nice knowing we should have options at a position of need.
Great news out of the Senior Bowl is that Notre Dame Center John Sullivan really helped his stock. It sucked looking at this draft class, combining our need for a Center and the weakness at the Center position. Probably the top two draft eligible centers stayed in school (Luigz and Mack) and it was very disappointing. Sullivan getting rave reviews really makes me think he could be a great second round pick.
A guard to look out for is USC’s Chilo Rachal. Ranked as the 8th guard on two different sites I look at (and a 5th round pick on the one) Kiper has Rachal as his 20th best player overall. First of all, it’ll be interesting to see how much influence Kiper really has on the draft and if Rachal rises. But if not, it’d be a nicer player to maybe grab in the 2nd or 3rd round.
My two favorite DE’s for the second day are Keilen Dykes and Kendall Langford. They should both be there on the second day and could be great fits in our defense.
Whether we sign a wide receiver or not, I still think there’s room to take another one late. The reasoning is the return game. I’d like to see Rossum not return, and while I was a huge Willie Reid supporter, if he’s not the guy we gotta just part ways. I’m usually anti-cornerback for the Steelers as well, as I agree with Michael Strahan…”The best pass defense is a good pass rush.” I’d rather make sure our front 7 is amazing before worrying about the back 4. But it could depend on the direction they’re going with Townsend and McFadden. I love Billy Gay but he’s no more than a 3rd CB right now. When you see other teams like the Chargers have Jammer and Cromartie making plays (and the strong front 7 in front of them) it makes it tempting to grab a CB early to pair with Ike. Not totally convinced but an option for sure. But, one thing that could be nice is getting a 4th DB/5th WR late in the draft that doubles as a return man. I think that’d be a real nice piece to add. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie really sounds like a nice player. Maybe have Colclough nightmares, but they are separate people. DRC also doubles as a return man. It seems like he had a great senior bowl and will be on the rise, but could be an option whenever. As far as regular wr’s go, I love Michigan’s Adrian Arrington late. He’s got great size, made fantastic catches and seems to project as a 4th-5th round pick. About the only late wr/return man I can think of right now that i have an opinion on is WVU’s Darius Reynaud. The guy really makes plays, was not in a passing offense, and could be a return man.
That would have to be my Plan A
1. OL (Baker)
2. OL (Sullivan)
3. OL (Rachal)
4. DE (Langford)
5. DE (Dykes)
6. DB/WR return man (Reynaud…for lack of other examples)
7. Anything
Now as a Plan B, and totally looking outside of the box, look at where the talent is in this draft. One of the best top 10 RB’s I can ever remember. Not great top tier WR’s but great depth. Bigtime talent at the skill positions. If you look outside the box and tell yourself two things…….
1. We want to build a longterm dynasty, not a quick fix for 2008
2. We have confidence through later rounds and free agency we can fill needs
…….this Plan B would be possible…….
1. Jonathan Stewart/Felix Jones/Rashard Mendenhall
2. Devin Thomas/James Hardy/Adarius Bowman
3. Peyton Hillis/Owen Schmitt
4. through 7. Big Bodies
Just imagine this (and i’ll use the first name listed in my example)
Big Ben
Parker/Stewart
Hillis
Hines/Holmes/Thomas (who also is a return man)
Heath/Spaeth
Go ahead and TRY to stop that offense. Would be absolutely enormous. We’d have to resign Max…we’d have to draft o-lineman on 2nd day, and maybe make some other signings. But long term, that offense…unreal. And don’t give me the “I don’t think they’d take a FB bullshit.” Maybe they wouldn’t. That’s not the point of this. I know everyone thinks Tomlin has a love affair with Carey Davis but does it really mean you have a love affair with someone if you think he’s better than an aging, one-dimensional Dan Kreider? and B. even if you like Davis that position could be upgraded. Plus, I suppose that pick is more of the icing on the cake…..in theory you could take the RB and WR and then something else in the 3rd round.
Ok, i’ll apologize in advance for my WVU biased. Try to take that out of the equation and look at the type of player I’m talking about. But cmon, us three are as into the Steelers as you can be. Hoping to hear some good thoughts and discussion.
thav916
January 27, 2008
I definitely agree that what is done is done as far as the 2007 season is concerned.
Moving forward, I’m willing to give Tomlin the benefit of the doubt with the coaching decisions. I would like to think that no one knows his coaches better than Football Coach Mike, and even though I personally think Football Coach Mike is a dipshit, I’m willing to give him a pass on this one.
The Ben-Hines thing is so retarded…Hines is definitely being a bitch about it all. What Ben said clearly had nothing to do with Hines; should Chris Kemo be pissed, too, because Ben wants to keep Faneca?
Plax is awesome, though, by the way.
I fully expect the Steelers to take someone on the O-Line in the 1st round of the Draft. I don’t think it matters which position that guy plays, either, as the team can move some its current personnel around to make it all work. I remember last year how Tomlin seemed to fall in love with Lawrence Timmons, who eventually became the Steelers #1 draft pick. After reading a recent article, I get the impression that Coach T is doing the same thing with Chris Williams, the OT from Vanderbilt. Only time shall tell, though.
I, too, would like the team to bring back Starks…but I don’t really care that much either way. I think that Max should have been the starting RT in ‘07, but, alas, the coaches disagree with me. With that in mind, I don’t think it matters much either way if he returns. Furthermore, I thought Essex played well enough in the Playoff game that he can more than admirably fill-in as a backup OT.
Lots of good DBs out there with return potential (Tracy Porter comes to mind, in addition to the aforementioned “DRC”), so that could always be a possibility in the middle rounds.
With the Senior Bowl now over, the Scouting Combine becomes the next big thing for Steelers fans to look forward to, unless of course Eli and the G-Men are capable of knocking off the hated Patriots next Sunday.
On a separate note, the loss by Pitt last night…at home…to a BAD Rutgers team…is probably the single worst loss that the program has achieved since Ben Howland took over. As embarrassing as the Bucknell loss at home was a few years ago, the Bison helped to at least substantiate it a bit when they knocked off Kansas in the NCAA Tournament. Rutgers, meanwhile, would probably lose to Robert Morris if they played them tomorrow. Bad, bad, loss for the Panthers.
Jay Bay speaking up about the Pirates’ inactivity was good, I thought. Bay, if healthy, is the team’s best player, and he has the right to be pissed if the organization doesn’t want to field a competitive team around their few good parts. I was happy to read that the team has made an offer to Sanchez and are willing to do the same with LaRoche and Capps, too, though.
Finally, there will be no time to get their feet wet as the Pens open their 2nd half schedule at New Jersey on Wednesday night. It should be a fun and exciting stretch run for all of the Atlantic Division’s teams, including the Pens, who hopefully will get Crosby back by March.
Raible
January 27, 2008
Nice to get back at it. I’ll post more later but…
-Ben/Ward: Who cares. These guys get asked questions all the time and every once in awhile they say something that sounds interesting if taken out of context. I can’t get annoyed at Ben for making a no-win public request or at Ward for his pointless reply. Even if any of these comments were truely ill-intentioned (which they aren’t) all would be forgotten by the time I’d care anyway (meaning opening day).
-But since it’s the offseason: Ben wants a big receiver. I want a big receiver. We don’t need a big receiver. Every team in the NFL has to live without carrying each and every prototypical offensive and defensive weapon. Right now the Steelers line up on offense (and do just fine) without a big split end (among other things). If we can get one under the right circumstances, then sure, go ahead and get one. But it isn’t a critical missing link or anything.
-Free Agency: I think we all agree that this would be a fine year for the Steelers to make one of those “Steeler pick-ups,” meaning a decent guy from wherever that gets better in PGH in a new role. Farrior and Hartings are the examples I genreally point to- good OLB to great ILB, good guard to great center. Another good guard sounds about right, or like TH said maybe a toolsy wideout who’s been up-and-down in the wrong role and with the wrong QB. Hackett’s at the top of the list easily in my eyes, but I can’t see him hitting the market. Berrian and Bry Johnson would fit the deep threat bill but may not be realistic either. Sounds like TH sees Gage as a feasible and desireable possibility, but he made some headway with VY and I wonder if they might just keep him. I hadn’t heard Wilford was a FA before but he’s been a favorite of mine since the draft. It will be interesting if the Steelers are giving this notion as much thought as we are. This is one of those ideas I think is decent and do-able but won’t be bothered if it doesn’t get done.
-Draft Avenues: I think you hit the nail in one respect. We draft to maintain a great team. That doesn’t mean we have to address our biggest weakness in the first round or even in the current year. We’re certainly going to want to boost the line during this draft, but piling up more middle road talent isn’t the answer. Does anyone remember what our *needs* were in the years we took Troy, Foote, Ward, etc? All teams need to be bringing in good players all over the field, and the successful ones are able to consistently get good value. A need-based selection process is asking for mediocrity. There are some constraints of course (no QB for example), but we’re pretty much in best-available mode.
-That Said: It is nice to see such a deep tackle class. Not only may we find a great one at #23, but we could also decide to trade up or stand pat for a slider in round 2 and use our first on a difference-maker somewhere else. The skill position 1-2-3 punch combo suggested has some appeal, although I think it’s pretty unlikely. I still see defensive line, secondary, and even linebacker joining O-line as concerningly thin for this team. I’ll agree and say we jump if a tremendous receiver or back is there at 23, but I can’t see us leaving the first 4 rounds without seriously bolstering those non-skill areas. Injury to Brett Keisel, Aaron Smith, Ike Taylor, Townsend, Foote, Farrior, or Ryan Clark would concern me much, much more than Parker, Ward or Holmes. And that’s not even mentioning the line. This isn’t to say I’d rule out a “firepower” draft, just that I think it would necessitate a perfect storm of re-signings, free agent help, and re-newed front office confidence in some of our crappier backups. But the key theme, that of outside-the-box thinking and flexibility, is one that I’m hugely on board with.
-PGH Injuries: This is getting pretty frustrating. Of all the teams I’ve rooted for in my time I can’t think of a run of squads I’ve been happier and more proud to root for than the last several years a Pitt hoop teams. Despite an inability to get those bluechip one-night-stand guys, the Panthers take a back seat to no one in the Big East. Knight, Troutman, Brown, Lett, Blair, Zavaskas, Page, Krauser, Young, Fields, and on and on. All play defense, play hard, and win big-time Big East battles. Very, very disappointing for a guy like Mike Cook to lose his senior year, particularly after a transfer. And then the worst-case-scenario with Fields. We know they won’t quit- punishing Georgetown was one of the more special wins under Howland-Dixon. But in college each year’s team is new, different, and lasts just a year, and it’s tough to see a season get wrecked.
-PGH Inj Part II: Good call on the Atlantic Div- it really can’t get any more intense. Look at all the different elements in the race. Great east coast locations to start with- NY, NY, NJ, PHI, PGH. All the rivalries- really pick any two and there’s history. The HOF Brodeur and the new studs DiPietro and Lundqvist. The stars- Jagr, Drury, Gomez, Briere, Straka, Crosby, Malkin, etc.
I’m pretty confident about the Pens despite losing Crosby. The key will be maintaining momentum. No 4 game skids. There’s been a lot of talk about adding a scoring winger, but I’m wondering if we might be better off holding tight for now. Thoughts?
thegreatawakening
January 28, 2008
“There’s been a lot of talk about adding a scoring winger, but I’m wondering if we might be better off holding tight for now. Thoughts?”
As was my stance last year when the Pens traded for Gary Roberts, I am a big believer that the organization can’t get caught up in their fans’ wishes to add some pizazz at the expense of the future. By and large, this is a young team, meaning that the future isn’t necessarily now. If the team can pry a winger from another team at a small cost, then I’m game; if Atlanta wants Jordan Staal for FA-to-be Marian Hossa, I tell them to screw themselves.
Raible
January 28, 2008
Ramon at the buzzer! Pitt hoops has a special place in my heart. Brian Shorter, Chris McNeal, Eric Mobley, Sean Miller, Ricardo Greer, Vontego Cummings, Brandin Knight, Jaron Brown, Page, Lett, Z, Krauser, Troutman, Taft, Young, Ramon, Fields, Blair……….what’s not to like? Undersized everything, no NBA talent, and they just keep making life Hell for the rest of the Big East.
thegreatawakening
February 8, 2008
IDEAL PLAN AS OF TODAY
Continues to be resign Max, sign WR
My ideal ideal plan would be to do whatever it takes trading wise and end the first three rounds with
Rashard Mendenhall/Jonathan Stewart/Felix Jones/Jamaal Charles
Chris Williams/Brandon Albert/Chilo Rachal/Jeff Otah/Gosder Cherilus
John Sullivan
More realistic would be
1. O-line of names mentioned above
2. Sullivan
3. Running Back
4. Defensive End
Thoughts/Reasoning
-6 first round quality tackles and 2 bigtime guards give us guaranteed huge options at #23. Can’t beat when need and value are at same position
-About the guards, the power of Kiper as I predicted now has Rachal in almost everyone’s top 3 guard. Albert seems like an absolutely fantastic, dominating and versatile prospect.
-Need a Center. Seems like Sullivan fits best. Ideally would be great in 3rd…but might need to take in 2nd to guarantee we get him.
-Really think we need to add a running back and this year is incredibly deep. Big back would be nice for a complement but might even be smarter to take someone fast so we can run the exact same plays as we run with Parker
-Defensive End is my highest need after O-Line but I like to think we can grab some guys to fit our scheme in the 2nd round. Definitely not opposed to the strategy of taking 2 or 3 of them on the 2nd day and just hoping to hit on one of them.
-Still at some point think a WR or CB that returns would be nice
PUMPED FOR COMBINE
thav916
February 16, 2008
TRANSITION TAG ON MAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thav916
February 21, 2008
I’m not sure how I feel about putting the Transition tag on Starks. While it’s nice to keep someone, Starks will no doubt be overpaid making the average of the Top 10 salaries at his position; there’s no way in hell that Starks is one of the Top 10 OT in the NFL! I’ve heard a lot of interesting things today, though, some of which were people complaining that the Steelers should have spent this money on Faneca (not even close to enough), that the Steelers should have Franchised Faneca (not their style), and that the Steelers should have Franchised Starks (to pay him among the Top 5 at his position?!?!). Most interesting is the notion that the Steelers could cut Marvel Smith, who has a bad back and is in the last year of his contract. An additional thought, and I know it’s been discussed here before, would be to keep Marvel at LT, put Max at RT, and move Colon to LG to take over for Faneca (or, I suppose, you could move Simmons to LG and Colon to RG). I certainly don’t think the Steelers are in worse shape with Starks on their roster, but I wonder if they’ll regret paying him all of this money. Of course, the team could always sign him to a long-term deal and essentially wipe away the Transition tag.
In any case, and after watching the freak that is Jonathan Stewart on SportsCenter the other day, I have come full circle on the Steelers and the Draft. While O-Line is certainly a position of need, I think that I am now in favor taking the best player available, regardless of position. If the best player available is an O-Lineman, then that’s great to kill 2 birds with 1 stone; if the best player available is a guy like Stewart, then I think you gotta take him. The O-Line can’t get much worse than it was last year, and it’s not like adding a guy late in the 1st round of the Draft is going to pay immediate (and I stress “immediate”) dividends on the O-Line. But, adding a skill position player like Stewart late in the 1st round certainly could pay immediate dividends, not to mention the fact that he could develop into a star.
Nevertheless, I fully expect the Steelers to take an O-Lineman with their 1st round pick, and I am completely fine with that. The Starks tagging, though, was certainly an interesting/confusing/awesome/terrible move today.
Raible
February 21, 2008
Holy cow! Am I dreaming or did Raible just change his mind on something?!?!?!?! But you know I love it!
Transition tagging Starks even surprised me. But you guys mighta seen my post earlier today that we shoulda franchised him. The numbers I heard were that franchising him woulda only cost about 500K more. Two kinds of franchise tags…exclusing and non-exclusive. Non-exlusive means other teams cant even talk to the player and would not have liked this for a player of just Starks’s caliber. But a non-exclusive means we can match the offer and if we don’t, we’d get 2 first round picks. With a transition tag, we can match, but if we don’t we get nothing. Starks woulda been the perfect person to try to keep, franchise, and if a huge offer comes his way, simply let him go and take two 1st’s for it. If it woulda only cost 500K more, this seems like a MUCH MUCH MUCH smarter option.
I’m hoping it just buys us some time. Hopefully signing him to a long term deal worth less per year. If nothing else, it’s only one year of overpaying him and you’d have to think he’d get a chance to prove he’s worth it and then get a long term contract with us next year. We are 16-17 million under the cap. We’re not active with free agents from other teams. I like committing to guys like Starks and Kemoeatu, which I hope is coming soon (sounded like it was from his agent).
My boy Matt Williamson brought up Dolphins Center Rex Hadnot last night. Would be great to resign Starks and Kemoeatu and sign Hadnot. I think we’d still need STUDS on the line (I actually think the worst move we made was resigning Simmons), but I think moves like Starks, Kemoeatu, Hadnot (even if it was 1 or 2 of them) would allow the Steelers much greater flexibility in the draft, which I of course believe in and now seems like Raibs is thinkin the same. A running back would be far from a slam dunk for us. Still could go Guard/Tackle in the first. But I love the idea of adding a running back and this year is such a huge class of them.
JStew’s a Greek God. Mendenhall’s arms are even bigger. Felix and Charles are home run threats that would be perfect additions as well.
What’s great, is sitting at #23, we are basically GUARANTEED AT LEAST one of the top 6 tackles, one of the top two guards, and one of the top five running backs. That’s absolutely tremendous. And that doesn’t even include all of the other talent that will be there as I’m certainly not slamming the page to just o-line and running back.
thav916
February 22, 2008
Starks: I don’t think anyone would consider paying Max Starks big money long-term AND giving up draft picks. So I think using the transition tag rather than franchise tag most likely saved us $550,000, small sum that it is relatively speaking. What a team could do however, is slip a poison pill into the contract, such as a stipulation that the deal doubles and becomes guaranteed if Starks plays 4 games at Heinz Field in any one season. Would avoiding this possibility be worth $550,000?
The Line: Knowing the Steelers, this move really looks like a precursor to a Marvel Smith cut in my eyes. Right tackles are cheaper than left, so perhaps the team plans to move Starks to the left, Colon to guard, and pursue a right tackle, which is an easier and less expensive task. Of course if we find a left tackle or guard in the draft the current roster gives us the flexibility to take him.
Running Back: I would be okay with a first round running back, although I think the overall value of a 1st round OL/mid-round RB package is likley to be greater than a 1st round RB/mid-round OL package. I agree that we don’t necessarily need a back whose skills compliment Parker’s. As long as he can play he can help us. My order of we go that route is Felix, Mendenhall(tie)Stewart, and then wait a round or two.
Corners: I still think Revis would have been great for us last year. We need a corner desperately, but I think almost every team needs to think long and hard about an elite corner prospect when faced with one. I don’t have any stats on this, but it seems to me like truely top-shelf CBs pan out at a better-than-average rate, while it’s tricky to find diamonds in the rough at the position. I’m not saying that Jenkins, Rodgers-Cromartie, etc. are at the level of Robinson, Hall, Revis, etc, because I don’t know if they are. But it’s something I’d keep on the radar if they are and they slip.
Free Agency: I’ll say it again- it feels like the year we sign a Farrior or Hartings. The center you mentioned who I haven’t heard of sounds like a good start.
thegreatawakening
February 25, 2008
EDIT: Last post I said we are desperate for a CB. I meant we were *not* desperate.
thegreatawakening
February 25, 2008
Dean, I think because no team would give up 2 first rounders is the exact reason we shoulda franchised. But if we just resign him to a long term deal it’s all for naught so no point in continuing to talk about it.
I’m glad to keep Kemoeatu and Essex for another year. I’ll hate another year of Nate Washington as our 3rd WR. Two possible targets, Jamar Nesbit and Justin Gage both resigned. Just doesnt look like we’ll be very active in free agency but all it’ll take is 1 or 2 guys.
As of now I’m preparing not to be active. The fact that Starks, Simmons, Colon and Kemoeatu all seem to be in our plans (tough to say Essex past next year) has 4 guys for 2 positions. I wish Simmons was taking 1000 snaps a day in his backyard but I’ll assume he’s not. When you combine that with no Center really seeming to be 2nd round quality, I’m beginning to think we really have room to target 1 Guard or Tackle in the first two rounds and not Guard and Tackle. I will preface this with saying that I’m of course with taking zero lineman in the first two rounds or two lineman in the first two rounds if that’s what the value is.
I’m thinkin take a guard or tackle in round 1 or 2. Say it’s Brandan Albert. Love Albert cuz he can do so much. You put him where he’s best. Let’s say it’s guard. In that scenario, Starks and Colon are your tackles. Simmons, Kemoeatu and Albert battle for two spots at guard. Let’s say it’s Sam Baker. Starks and Baker at tackles. Simmons, Kemoeatu and Colon battle it out for guard.
Second round I’m thinkin best available at RB/WR/DE/CB. There should be no possible way NOT to get a stud at one of those four positions.
Third round I say the same four positions and throw in starting to think about a Center as well.
Because of the philosophy of taking 1 guard or tackle in the first two rounds, I also think this would allow us to hit up RB/WR/DE/CB in the first round……naming one from each to get an idea……..Stewart/Hardy/Balmer/DRC. Then hope a guy like Chilo Rachal or Carl Nicks is available in the second round.
thav916
February 29, 2008
I actually heard, from Ed Bouchette, that it isn’t guaranteed that Starks will be with the Steelers next year…at least that’s what I think I heard. I don’t really understand the specifics, but he basically said that he can guarantee that Starks won’t be getting paid what the Transition Tag calls for. He also said that he doesn’t think Marvel Smith will be cut.
Rumor has it that Ben’s deal could be done as early as this week, which would be a hell of a birthday present for my fellow Ben R. (his birthday was today, March 2nd).
I still don’t know if I like Hossa trade or not. I am a HUGE Colby fan, so to see him leave pains me. I do, however, like management’s commitment to contending for the Cup. Madden put it this way the other day (side bar: I pretty much listened to Madden’s entire show on Friday as it took me almost 3 hours to get home from RMU because of the snow/dumbass drivers): “Colby Armstrong is my friend, yet I’m saying that this was a great deal for the Penguins.” Only time shall tell, I suppose.
I still can’t believe that Pitt came back and beat Syracuse on Saturday. I also find it hard to believe that Pitt is sitting on the bubble, but that’s neither here nor there. HUGE game at WV on Big Monday!
RMU Men’s Basketball clinched the #1 seed in the NEC Tournament and, at worst, a berth in the NIT Tournament!
Raible
March 3, 2008
Since we basically need everything but QB, TE and LB I like to look at guys I think would be good for us…
Running Back
I don’t think this is a huge need….Willie is good, I’d like to think Russell is working out hard and can be good, I think Mewelde is a huge upgrade, I’m ok with Carey Davis as RB/FB/SpTeamer and I think the main thing that would help our running game is a better offensive line. With all of that said, no doubt I’d be fine with adding a bigtime running back to the fold or an upgrade at fullback. Starting with one my absolute favorite players in the draft, Jonathan Stewart, the list of running backs that I like is almost too long to mention. One thing is for sure; there’s gonna be value to trade up, to stay put, and in the later rounds. As for FB, I think you’d have to assume if we wanted to get a better blocker than Davis it would be very possible. Big need or not, I’ve professed my thoughts for a stud RB previously and continue to think the same.
Wide Receiver
I seem to want a WR more than most. Nate Washington makes a better 4th than he does a 3rd and especially awful when Holmes/Ward gets hurt and he’s the 2, Hines is getting older and would nice to have a guy ready to step in rather than need to get one at that point and we just paid Big Ben all that money, I think we should give him the weapons he deserves. A guy I love is Devin Thomas. So many of the receivers this year are either good because they’re tall, good because they’re fast, undersized, or oversized. Thomas is the total package. At 6′2 he’s big enough that his size is a positive but it’s not the reason he’s so good. With 4.4 speed he’s fast enough that his speed is a positive but it’s not why he’s so good. He also is a good return man. Probably doesn’t hurt that he was a member of my College Football Championship Team. The other guy I love is James Hardy. He is a guy that’s huge. Thing with Hardy is that he was ultra-productive in his three years at Indiana. He then went out and ran faster than people thought (sub 4.5) and also repped out 18 on the bench. Reminding me of Plax certainly works in his favor. I would of course be fine with my boy DeSean Jackson. As for later on I’m liking Jordy Nelson. Seems to be a perfect complement right now as the 3/4 to Nate Washington and also down the road as the 1/2 with Holmes. 122 freakin catches last year. Good size, hard worker, smart, Nelson seems to have it all. I feel like because he’s white it’s just assumed he’s slow but his time but running a sub 4.5 was bigtime. And any questions of whether he just simply has good timed speed, check out this link..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek0ANQ8bRfo.
Offensive Line
Love Brandon Albert. Been my #1 target for the Steelers for a few weeks and nothing has changed. A trade-up for Jake Long seems out of question but I’d welcome a trade up for Ryan Clady or Chris Williams. Other than them, Sam Baker continues to be my favorite. It’s nothing to do with bein from Pitt but I’m just not a Jeff Otah fan for us. He’s incredibly slow and the main reason…once again, we paid Ben Roethlisberger an exorbatant amount of money…let’s give him a pass-blocking first lineman and not another run-blocking first lineman. As noted before I like Chilo Rachal in the 2nd round and not too many other guards are standing out right now. Tackles…seems like Carl Nicks might have the most potential to be a star. Oniel Cousins reminds me too much of Willie Colon. As for Center, I think this is by far the biggest need for our team. Ideally I’d love to sign a stopgap and then in the next 2-3 years whenever the ideal Center entered the draft pull the trigger in the first round. But if we’re unable to sign a stopgap we really gotta think about taking a Center this year. I like Mike Pollak a good bit. Seems smart and savvy. Usually listed in the low 290s he checked in at the combine a shade over 300 bills. He also threw up 29 reps. He placed in the top 10 amongst o-lineman in 5 of the 6 events and was the fastest AND strongest Center. Often projected as a 3rd rounder, because of where we draft and because of our need for a center, I’d be perfectly fine with Pollak in the 2nd. John Sullivan is the other Center that I’ve heard good things about and if he’s sitting there in the 4th round would have to be one of the top options out there.
Defensive Line
We really need young defensive lineman. Derrick Harvey weighed in at 290 pounds at the combine, showed great strength but also kept his speed. No idea if he can play the 5-technique but simply lookin at size/speed/strength combo’s he’s one of the best I’ve ever seen. Being a Gator does not hurt. Calais Campbell seems to be falling but his size alone makes him an intriguing choice. It’s possible that he’s falling because he won’t be the playmaker you’d hope, but in the 3-4 you don’t need as much of a playmaker. Strength could be a concern and being stout against the run is obviously a necessity for the position. Doesn’t hurt that he’s been compared to Chris Canty. Kentwan Balmer appears to be the main DT that could project to our DE. He’s tall, he’s big, he’s strong. He’d also be a nice piece to have that could slide to DT in a 4 man front. Speaking of nice in the 4 man front, I think another great target in the second round could be Red Bryant. Bryant is a true NT. Casey Hampton is getting older and that’s one of the most important positions in our defense. It’d be nice to have someone in place to take over. I know we resigned Hoke but he’s old, too. Bryant appears to need to get a little stronger but could be a nice guy to add to the mix and play in NT/DT rotation until it’s time to take over. Ahtyba Rubin is another candidate for this. His 35 reps placed him among the combine’s best. Kendall Langford and Keilein Dykes are still my favorite sleepers at DE. Sign me up for Langford in the 3rd.
Cornerback
This position has really developed as a bigtime position. Don’t have too much to add here…I like most of the top rated guys and they’d be huge additions in the first round. Looks like a lot of good later round prospects, too. I don’t think this is a huge need, but getting a guy that could also return would be pretty nice as you have to question Townsend and McFadden’s careers with the Steelers.
thav916
March 8, 2008
CROSS-POSTED FROM NFL:
In the wake of Favre’s retirement a radio host said that he was the last of a breed of QB that played with a style that can’t be coached or explained through a system. Favre may be the face of the improv quarterback, but he’s not quite the last of the breed. His retirement is just a torch passing- to the past and future Super Bowl Champion and 3rd best QB in the NFL, Ben Roethlisberger.
thegreatawakening
March 9, 2008
-I love Albert too. Saw a highlight package on SportsCenter the other night and I was hooked. I’d like to get him in the first.
-With all these tackles you have to figure one or two will slide into the second quarter of the second round, which would be a fine time to trade up if you ask me.
-3rd round: Will Jordy Nelson be available here?
-Sullivan in the 4th sounds great.
-5th-7th round: It’s time for the Steelers to find a diamond or two to fit the 3-4 scheme.
-An alternative scenario could involve a corner or back either in the first or in the 2nd.
-I like the reasoning behind liking Devin.
thegreatawakening
March 9, 2008
My official opinion on a new receiver is that I want one, but I’d rather not try to fill the hole using our 2008 first round pick. The general area in which we’ll be picking has recently produced Matt Jones, Michael Jenkins, Mark Clayton, Roddy White, Santonio Holmes and Chad Jackson, among many others that I didn’t think of off hand. Personally I’d rather not get involved with that.
You are correct that it would be nice to find the replacement for Hines sooner rather than later. The sooner we start to take a stab at this problem, both in terms of which offseason and which round, the more likelier we are to be comfortable with our situation when the time comes. I trust the front office enough that I will be pleasantly surprised if we take a WR in the first this year. But if me and my limited knowledge were forced to handle this draft for the Steelers I’d avoid the early receiver in favor of what I would feel is a more sure bet with a player like Albert. I’d try to groom a mid-round pick or free agent into the role over the next year or so, and would naturally make the priority more urgent if no progress has been made at this time next year.
thegreatawakening
March 9, 2008
After re-reading my outstanding work I was thinking of the following
1. Albert
2. Pollak
3. Nelson
4. Langford
5. CB/Return Man
6. Anything
7. No pick-Traded for Allan Rossum
Tons of scenario’s though. Lots of lots of possibilities. You brought up trading up in the 2nd round. I agree…I actually think this is ALWAYS a great idea. Just so many guys in that early part of the 2nd round you’d like to get your hands on. Kinda similar to our fantasy drafts. Tough thing about that is we gave up our 7th round pick in the same year we have zero comp picks. And I feel like we need to come out of this draft with 5-6 players. Would be impossible if we traded up in the 2nd…unless we gave up future picks which I don’t want to do.
Really do have to love what you see from Albert’s highlights. His ability to get out in space is fantastic. I love that Mike Mayock was the first guy to really rave about Albert and the reason that happened was because Howie Long told Mayock to check out the film on Mayock. Also have to love that he seems to be able to project at four different positions.
I thought I brought up a good point to my brother today. I’ve seen Albert to the Steelers in so many mocks it’s really tough to tell where he’d go if we didn’t take him. I already talked about how I’d love to trade up in the 2nd but would be tough to do. One way to get extra picks would be trading down from the 1st round to the early 2nd. There’s still gonna be lots of talent at the positions of need and we could pick up a good amount of other picks in the trade.
Really tough to tell if Nelson will be there in the 3rd or not. On averages I’d think he could be, with not many wr’s expected to go in round 1 and him usually ranked around 12-15. But all it takes is one team to love him and that could happen in the 2nd round for all I know.
Whether it’s a guy I love or not, we really do have to get back to finding a diamond in the rough DE in the latter part of the draft. Too many Shaun Nua and Orien Harris’s recently.
Sullivan in the 4th really does seem to be good value and glad you like the reasoning behind Devin.
You mentioned an alternative scenario involving a corner or a back in round 1 or 2. Do you not include a WR in this group?
thav916
March 9, 2008
Ha, you answered my question before I even got it out there.
thav916
March 9, 2008
Was thinkin more about your WR theory. I could point out that there are busts at every position and that I don’t like to look too much into previous draft trends as each draft is a new on. I thought of Dwayne Bowe being someone that looks good but there’s probably also another 10 that sucked that you didn’t even mention. The crop of WR’s in that area really is awful so your point is well taken.
I also have mentioned several times it was ideal to sign a free agent that could come in immediately and you know what you’re getting but it doesn’t appear as if we’ll do that. I also don’t like to just bank on finding a TO or Brandon Marshall or hope that a Nate Washington or Dallas Baker emerges. The other thing is that I don’t like to just assume we’ll get Albert. I also would prefer Albert to a WR but have to think of a few things…he could be gone, Steelers might not like Albert, Steelers might not see the need at G/T, Steelers might be in love with someone else, or the Steelers could see more depth at o-line and target one in the 2nd round. Because of those possibilties I like to look at other things. It seems like in those situations you’d go with a CB or RB and you’ve backed it up with your logic. I think two main reasons come to mind why I really want a WR.
1. We have Big Ben, lets give him weapons.
2. In our offense I think the WR we drafted could be a semi-bust and still excel. I don’t see us ever totally airing the ball out. I’d love an offense where Ward, Holmes, Heath and Rookie X each caught 40-70 balls and others being tossed around to Nate, Spaeth and the running backs. So basically, I think if we had a Matt Jones and he caught 50 balls and had 8 TD’s it’d be a successful pick. I’m not expecting to draft a 100 ball a year Reggie Wayne at this spot.
I still love that you answered my question before I even asked it. In my mock listed above I don’t have us taking a WR til the 3rd round so not like I’m obsessed with taking one early. Certainly no reason to reach for a Rashaun Woods of the draft if we don’t have to but I still put a WR as a high option.
thav916
March 9, 2008
Okay, it’s time to get some things rolling…
Steelers: A few signings in Moore and Fox doesn’t leave much for a fan to be excited about. Ben’s contract notwithstanding, this offseason has been pretty disappointing from my perspective. Losing Faneca, while a given, was disappointing. Transitioning Starks, for the amount of money he is due, is a surprise. One good thing about a lack of moves, however, is that this team shouldn’t need a whole lot of moves. Sure, the O-Line sucked last year and the defense looked old at times. But you’re still talking about the AFC North Champions, a team that was competitive in nearly every game it played in. The Draft is going to be huge, probably even bigger than in most seasons due to the lack of cap room. Not sure if you guys saw or not, but St. Vincent’s found its successor to President Bush as its Commencement speaker: Mike Tomlin.
Penguins: Is this team really better without Sidney Crosby? I love The Kid as much as anyone, and I know it’s somewhat sacrilege to suggest, but the damn team seems to play better when Crosby, among others, isn’t in he lineup. With that being said, this team isn’t winning a Cup this year with Crosby and Hossa sitting on the sidelines. The Pens have as good of a chance as anyone to win the Eastern Conference (my money is on the Rangers, by the way), so here’s hoping for an exciting finish to the season.
Pirates: Paul Maholm struck the shit out of Billy Crystal today. Sadly, this has pretty much been the highlight of the Spring. There is some talent on this team, though, and if things fall right, I don’t think it’s a stretch to ask 70-75 wins from this team. Not that 70-75 wins is any good, however.
WPIAL: Simply put, I can’t stand Terrelle Pryor. That’s pretty much all I have to say about that.
Pitt: I won’t really get into too much Pitt talk since it is typically frowned upon, but let me just say that I am excited for next season in Football. Basketball, while it may have left some to be desired, is hopefully finding its groove and peaking at the right time at its home away from home, Madison Square Garden. I never root for WVU, but I am hoping for a rubber match between Pitt and WVU in the Title Game.
Raible
March 14, 2008
It does appear to be sacrilege to bring up trading Crosby and it might not be worth it no matter what you brought back in return because of his age and fame BUT you have to wonder what kind of enormous package the Penguins could get for him to add to what they have. An encouraging sign to me is how well they’re playing without Hossa. Mainly for those that worried the Hossa trade could turn out to Christensen, Armstrong, Esposito and 1st for Dupuis and be a disaster. No Hossa on the ice and no Christensen or Armstrong either and you really can’t tell the team is missing anything. Well I can’t at least. And that’s not taking Colby’s personality. Just seems like they have so many role players stepping up, still have so many young guys ready to take on a bigger role, I guess my bottom line is that the worst case scenario for the trade really isn’t a bad scenario and the best case is putting them over the hump this year.
thav916
March 14, 2008
When I talk about Steelers free agency moves and wishlists it never bothers me that they end up not signing a guy like Bernard Berrian for twice as much money as he’s worth. Steelers are smart, they are savvy, they are trustworthy. And I refuse to freak out that they didn’t sign Rex Hadnot. BUT, it’s slightly disappointing to me that Hadnot got a reasonable 2 year 7 million dollar contract and just today Bryant Johnson got a one year deal. Steelers like to build from the draft and resign their own players but those are the types of moves that don’t harm the future. Not gonna act like it’s a huge deal but slightly disappointed that it was their choice to not go after/sign these guys.
One positive about the two guys we have signed…Tomlin said at the end of the year the Special Teams sucked but he believed in the coaching staff but not the players. I like that we signed two players for the special teams and two of the three guys we cut were special teams players. Never do I see that point made but a great point it is.
thav916
March 14, 2008
Justin Hartwig! Huge!!!!!!!!!!!
thav916
March 18, 2008
To elaborate I really am pumped about the Hartwig signing. The need for a center is not something I need to go into. If we didn’t sign one in free agency, we would have almost been forced to draft one. Then we woulda had to start a rookie center or Mahan again. I was upset for not signing Hadnot for 2yrs $7 mil and we signed Hartwig for about half as much. Beautiful. Everything I’m hearing appears that the Panthers liked Hartwig but he didn’t fit their scheme and they felt like they couldn’t pass up Kalil in the draft. When asked to restructure/move to guard Hartwig refused and was cut. Even in money terms it’s very possible a player is not worth a 5 yr $17 mil contract but well worth the one he signed with us. I think it’s an important move for the franchise as well. First of all, it shows that the team is aware the offensive line needs upgrades and changes. As obvious as it seemed to us, it’s still never known what they’re actually thinking. Second off, I thought Madden always made a good point. It’s not a mistake if Tomlin brings one of his boys in to play and he sucks (like he did with Mahan). It’s a mistake if his boy is still starting in year 2 and you wonder if Tomlin is blinded by the player bein his boy. Signing Hartwig hopefully shows Tomlin don’t give a fuck who’s starting.
Was upset after not even trying for Hackett…as it just felt like the Steelers were completely content with what they had. Was disappointing because I feel they are soooo close that only a few moves were needed. Upgrading special teams was solid, woulda liked Johnson/Hackett but glad to get Hartwig/Hadnot.
On Path to the Draft the other night on NFL Network they previewed the Steelers draft and talked to Jim Wexell. I really thought he was on top of things. Also personally enjoyed him saying that Albert round 1, Pollak in round 2 or another center in round 3, and then also pointed to the Steelers liking Kendall Langford. To top it off, as you guys probably saw, they had Keilen Dykes in for a visit this week. Anyway, based on the recent signing and recent pro days my latest mock is
1. Brandon Albert
2. Justin King
3. Jordy Nelson
4. Kendall Langford
5. Keilen Dykes
6. Anything
thav916
March 19, 2008
It certainly does seem like the Steelers will take Albert if he is there, eh? While I am a fan of Albert’s, now that we have added Hartwig and can use Mahan as a reserve at both center and guard, what do you guys think about the Steelers looking elsewhere (CB, WR, DE, etc.) when their draft pick comes up in Round 1? I am certainly not suggesting that the O-Line is now set, but it does have a little more depth than it did a week ago. While I am all for taking Albert, I think it would be extremely interesting if the team opted for one of the great corners or skill players in Round 1.
As for King, I wonder if he will still be around by the time the Steelers pick in Round 2. I know that Kiper, for one, has him being selected in the 1st Round. Certainly, if King (or a guy like him) can fall into your lap in the 2nd Round, I think it’s pretty obvious that you have to grab him.
One more point about the early draft picks: Not that he was really any good, but do you guys think the release of Cedrick Wilson makes the WR position even more vulnerable? Hell, Nate Washington is even still technically a restricted free agent. Maybe a little Limas Sweed action in Round 1 or something? Regardless of who is selected, I definitely wouldn’t be shocked if the pick is made with the though of helping the team’s new million dollar man (Ben) either with protection or a new weapon.
Raible
March 21, 2008
Instead of taking Jordy Nelson in Round Three, what do you think about the Steelers waiting another round and taking Jory Rand in Round Four? Rand has certainly done his best impersonation of Bob Pompeani lately, serving as host of the Nightly Sports Call and even offering his opinions on a regular basis on the Sunday Night #1 Cochran show. I can’t even begin to fathom how great he would be as a member of the Steelers’ nickel defense?
Better question: What position would Jory Rand play? In Pittsburgh, he’s clearly not man enough to play Kicker or Punter. Wide Receiver? Cornerback? I am sure he HAS a tight end, but I don’t think the Steelers need a Tight End.
I can’t believe I just wasted my breath, typing, and time talking about Jory Fucking Rand!?!?
Raible
March 21, 2008
I think in an ideal situation the Steelers would take a pass protecting Left Tackle. That’s why Sam Baker is always one of my favorite choices for the Steelers. Getting a center was the biggest need for the Steelers. When you look at everyone we have at guard and tackle I think we have a lot of solid guys. While the need for a LT might be more than a LG, I think the real need for the Steelers O-line is a stud. With Jake Long, Clady and Chris Williams most likely off the board I think Albert best fits that criteria. I want to add a pro bowler to our line and don’t care what position it’s at. If it’s at Guard, then you let Simmons, Kemoeatu (who might not be in long term plans) and Mahan (who might be best at backup G/C) battle it out, keep Colon at Tackle and go from there. If the best lineman is a Tackle, then move Colon to guard where he can battle with those aforementioned guards for two spots. Or Colon vs Starks at RT again. In fact, part of me wonders that the Steelers will wait until after the draft to sign Starks/Kemoeatu/Essex. If a guard is drafted, Kemoeatu might be out of their plans. If a tackle is drafted, Kemoeatu might be needed and counted on to start. Similar for Starks and Essex. What I love about Albert is he could potentially play any of the spots and the rest of our average lineman could fit around him.
I would be completely fine with going elsewhere in the first round. Tons of talent. Sweed, Kelly, Hardy, and Thomas would all seemingly be nice fits. Lots of nice CB’s. Justin King is a tough guy to project…him and Devin Thomas are two guys that are often very far off depending on the mocks you look at but I agree, it is tough to pencil King in as a late 2nd rounder. Reports having Tomlin scout Quentin Groves and Cliff Avril throw an OLB into the plans in the first two rounds. Because Timmons appears to be full-time ILB now and I think you can never have a good enough pass rush I’m not against this (would prefer not in the first round but could live with it).
Another thing that’s great with Albert is even though o-line seems like our biggest need, Albert might also be the best player on the board. Depending on who is gone, we might actually have to reach at another position to take one, instead of just taking Albert.
I’d be very for a scenario where we took a guy we just couldn’t live without in the first round and then traded up for Baker in the second. Even without a trade up should be some quality guards and tackles available. But like I said at the top, I really don’t think we need another body on the o-line…we have enough of them. We need a stud. I actually think we have a chance of quickly having one of the top offensive lines in the NFL with the addition of Hartwig, a first round lineman and all the depth we have. It was such a small move but Hartwig really gives us more flexibility in the draft and flexibility in a draft is fantastic.
I love the Cedrick Wilson incident. I would have liked him cut anyway. He forced them to cut him. I thought there was a need in the first place at WR. Now they have to agree. It’s beautiful. If they didn’t take one on the first day, I gotta think they’ll take one somewhere on the second day.
Best part about Jory Rand is on his kdka profile he lists his idol or role model as BOB POMPEANI.
thav916
March 21, 2008
Second best thing about Rand is what a mancake he is.
thav916
March 21, 2008
The other thing to keep in mind about OLB is the very real possibility that James Harrison is going to be suspended for his off-field incidents. The Trib actually had a quote that had the agent of Clark Haggans stating that his client is not opposed to coming back to the Steelers as a backup (because he’s not starting over Harrison or Woodley).
If only Jory Rand was Rand Hudson…then KDKA would have a real BEEFCAKE on its hands!
Raible
March 21, 2008
EVEN THOUGH I DIDNT LIKE HIS ANSWER (Don’t like term “reach” and wish he would have elaborated) THIS IS FROM MY BOY’S CHAT TODAY…..
Tim, Pittsburgh: Cmon Williamson answer a Steelers question. If Brandon Albert is gone what about Sam Baker giving Big Ben a pass-protecting Left Tackle.
Matt Williamson: Too early for Baker. That would be a serious reach.
thav916
March 22, 2008