College Fball
What Bowl Games are you most looking forward to?
How do you think Bobby Petrino will fare at Arkansas?
Who is going to be the next coach at Michigan?
What were the 5 biggest upsets this year?
What Bowl Games are you most looking forward to?
How do you think Bobby Petrino will fare at Arkansas?
Who is going to be the next coach at Michigan?
What were the 5 biggest upsets this year?
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I think what we saw at the combine was a lot of the top prospects solidify themselves as the top prospects. Adrian Peterson, Joe Thomas, Calvin Johnson, Alan Branch, Gaines Adams, Patrick Willis, Greg Olsen and Laron Landry all came into the combine as the No. 1 ranked players at their respective positions. Then they all went out and went above and beyond what was expected of them. It was great to see them out there and not scared and then excel.
Haver
February 28, 2007
A few guys that I can think of with performances that helped are Anthony Gonzalez, Paul Posluzsny, and Leon Hall. Gonzalez showed true 4.4 speed, was amazing in every cone and shuttle drill, and had an impressive vertical. Already projected as a mid-second rounder, that might not end up changing. But all it takes is one team to like what Gonzalez brings to the table more than a Bowe or Rice, and he could land in the 1st round. Poz seems like he’s been badmouthed all year long. Last year he was in A.J. Hawk’s league. Because of a knee injury and a position change, it seems like Poz has been falling all year long. He showed great speed, 4.67; a great vertical, 37 inches, and decent strength. I think his ILB/OLB versatility and toughness will make Poz a more than solid pick. The reason I put Hall on this list is because when I watched him play he looked to me overrated and just a solid college corner that’s tough but not that fast. Hall was lights out on all the speed and agility drills and already has the size. Maybe others expected it, but I didn’t and therefore was impressed.
Haver
February 28, 2007
I wanted to dig a little before I posted my top mover of each day so excuse me if you may not have heard of them.
Day 1: Derek Schouman, TE, Boise St.- Schouman was 4th on the Broncos in receiving with 29 catches for 294 yards and 4 TD’s on the year. Keep in mind this is an offense that relied mainly on RB Ian Johnson to carry the load coupled with the fact that QB Jared Zabransky was also working out as a WR this past weekend. Schouman ran a 4.74, had a 37.5″vertical(highest for a TE), was fastest in both shuttles, 3rd highest 3 cone, 2nd in broad jump, and benched 27 times, one less than Wisconsin standout Tackle Joe Thomas. Schouman is only 6-2 which is very small for a TE, but his combine may have lifted him from undrafted and unknown to potential second day guy.
Day 2: How about Antonio Pittman running a 4.4 40 yard dash, and Robert Meacham finishing at a 4.39 clip? These are two guys who were solid 2nd rd picks that may have vaulted themselves into 1st rd consideration while leapfrogging players at their respective positions.
Day 3: Quincy Black from New Mexico was tops in just about every LB category. He was a safety in college, leading the Lobos in tackling with 114, 3 INT’s and at 6-3, 227 he could definately fit in at OLB with his athleticism and pass coverage skills. (Quick side note, when I went to the Lobos website and came across the football frontpage I noticed that UNM had hired MATT WELLS as their new WR’s coach. Must have seen my skills during WVU Intramural Flag Football games and knew what I could bring to the table.)The other guy who really impressed me was Brian Robison, DL, Texas. With Tim Crowder getting a majority of the hype for the Horns in this category Robison shined. Top 3 in just about every major category, watch out for Robison’s name on Draft Boards.
Day 4: In a thin year for DB’s, Fresno State’s Marcus Mccauley was a mainstay in the top 5 of his group probably solidfying himself as a high second round pick. His 36″ vertical leaves a little to be desired but a good college resume should help to eliminate doubters.
Wells
February 28, 2007
I’d say that Calvin Johnson turned himself from a potential superstar into what Haver simply termed as a Freak!
Raible
March 3, 2007
Arkansas Turmoil: It’s tough to think that the Razorbacks can be as good as they were last year. While McFadden is a stud, their QB situation is completely pathetic! Furthermore, I don’t think that they will fly under the radar, at least prematurely, as they did this past season.
Raible
March 12, 2007
I agree, aside from their bad QB’s people forget that they lose atleast two of their top performers on defense in Jamaal Anderson and Chris Houston.
Wells
March 12, 2007
While Casey Dick is absolutely horrible at QB, Arkansas has Mitch Mustain coming back. He was in the same breath as TIM TEBOW as a high school senior so you know he’s got a ton of promise. Maybe he’ll also have some ups and downs but I think they have to go with him. You have Darren McFadden, Felix Jones and Peyton Hills all returning in the backfield and Marcus Monk at wideout. No doubt the defense did take a serious hit but I still think Arkansas has a lot of things going for them. One reason to expect a regression is simply because they play in by far the best conference in the land. They will have perhaps not only the best player in the SEC, but maybe the whole land (and maybe better NFL prospect than Bush and Peterson) in McFadden. With a player that good, you always have a chance.
Haver
March 17, 2007
Mustain is transfering to USC.
Just for the hell of it, can you imagine if Tim Tebow went to Arkansas. That would be my favortie backfield in football history.
I love Arkansas, and I hope they can stay good for a while. Other than Pitt and WVU, Ark and LSU are my favorite teams, and you gotta love Auburn, Alabama, and the SEC East too.
SEC football is a close second to Big East basketball as my favorite institution in all of sports.
thegreatawakening
March 19, 2007
I agree that there is just something so damn intriguing about the SEC in Football, although it probably has more to do with the fact that all of its big games are broadcast by Verne Lundquist than anything else!
Big East Basketball is most definitely where it is at, especially when you factor in that Billy Raftery broadcasts one of the conference’s games every single Big Monday of the season!
I prefer the Big East in Basketball (with the Pac-10 as my second favorite due to their late night coverage on Thursdays on Fox), the SEC in Football over the Big East (I still love the Thursday night games between the Big East’s best), the AFC North in NFL (just something about watching the Steelers beat up on their 3 biggest rivals that excites me), the Pacific Division in NBA (nothing is more compelling than the Lakers and Suns), the AL East in MLB (Yanks, Red Sox, and even the Jays make this the most interesting division), and the Atlantic Division in NHL (2 NY teams, NJ, Philly, and Pittsburgh…are you kidding me?!?!).
While each of the Majors are good, my favorite Golf events are the Ryder Cup, President’s Cup, and the World Match Play Championships. The Indianapolis 500 is my favorite Auto Race, I like the Tennis Masters Series finale in Tennis, and the Kentucky Derby is second to none in Horse Racing.
The Middleweight Division, with the likes of Jermain Taylor and Winky Wright, is my favorite Boxing weight class as I feel like you get the best of both worlds here (both power and speed). I prefer the Light Heavyweight Division in MMA, with the likes of Chuck Liddell, Quinton Jackson, Tito Ortix, Forrest Griffin, and where Randy Couture and Ken Shamrock used to be.
As much as I enjoy the MLS, the English Premier League is the one that I find to be the most entertaining in soccer (I do, however, prefer International (Country) Soccer to Domestic (Club)), housing some of the world and America’s best (Drogba, Henry, Rooney, McBride, Beasley, Onyewu).
I think it’s basically summed up in the fact that I love all sports institutions, no matter how large or small!
Raible
March 19, 2007
Verne Lundquist is great, and CBS also looks by far the best in HD for some reason, which makes the bright colored uniforms even better.
I always thought that SEC country deserved an NFL team. We have a team for New England so why not the Deep South? Birmingham is located in north-central Alabama and is resonably close to Mississippi, Georgia, and Tennessee. It’s population is around 230,000. By comparison Green Bay has about 100,000, Buffalo 280,000, and Pittsburgh 315,000.
The one thing that pisses me off about the Big East is that BC left. I like having Marquette, DePaul, Louisville, Cincy and Notre Dame in a way. But what I really liked about the Big East was how it went straight down the coast from Boston to Hartford to Providence to New York to Jersey to Philly to DC plus Pitt and Syracuse. I like football but I love east coast basketball only schools.
Good call on the AFC North and NHL Atlantic, although I basically like every NHL division but the Southeast. I also like the NFC East. The best division ever was when the Steelers were with Tennessee and Jacksonville.
Something else that pisses me off- why is it even an option for a franchise to take the name and colors when they move? For one, I wouldn’t even want them if I was starting fresh somewhere else. More importantly we should still have the Houston Oilers and Minnesota North Stars instead of the fucking Wild. Are you kidding me?
thegreatawakening
March 19, 2007
I don’t think that Durant’s performance will open up the door for a Freshman to win the Heisman, at least any more than it already is opened. Sure, there have been some great Freshmen in recent NCAA Football memory, but one will need to establish himself as the best in the country, as Durant did, to take home the Heisman.
Raible
April 11, 2007
Big East: Rich Rodriguez gets the nod over Greg Schiano
ACC: I guess Frank Beamer
Big Ten: Jim Tressel
Big Twelve: Bob Stoops
Pac Ten: Pete Carroll
SEC: Urban Meyer
Non-BCS:
Charlie Weis, Notre Dame
Chris Petersen, Boise State
Paul Johnson, Navy
Raible
April 13, 2007
Will Kevin Durant impact freshman winning the Heisman?
I agree with Raible and don’t think it will have any effect on the Heisman. I think the Heisman is a different award than most. In college basketball it’s a lot easier to A. come out of nowhere (being a freshman is basically out of nowhere) and B. not be on a top five team. The Heisman winner almost always has these requirements. I also don’t think it’s ironic that the first year freshman were forced to go to college, a freshman won the POY. Ever since Kevin Garnett changed the landscape of college basketball, the amount of upperclassman entering the draft has also risen. The last time the top freshman really played college basketball the amount of top juniors and seniors in the game was also higher. I believe if freshman had always been forced to go to college, you might have seen at least one or two win the award prior to Durant. Because in college football, a player HAS to stay three seasons (and often stay four or five), the top freshman in the nation have to compete with older, more mature and well established stars. When you factor in that Kevin Durant just simply dominated college basketball and not just any top incoming freshman will do that, I really don’t see it having an effect. With all of that said, if a college foootball freshman ever dominates ala Durant this season, I think he’ll win the Heisman. Easier said than done.
Haver
April 14, 2007
I feel like Daequan Cook was a huge surprise leaving OSU. The other guy who I thought was interesting was Glen Davis, LSU. This guy was on top of the world in ‘06 and probably could have faired pretty well in the draft. This year as a junior he battled injuries and his team was nowhere near the Final Four caliber of the previous year. He’s only 6-9, and after such a downtrodden season I would have thought he might come back and re-establish himself.
To be honest I thought Joseph Jones from A&M was another guy who was definitely solid in college, but he didn’t do anything extroadinary to catapult him up draft boards.
Finally, McRoberts. There is no doubt that the guy is a gifted player, but he’s not a lottery pick. He could stay for his Jr. year and really help himself out while imprving his game and his team. I mean every time I saw him this year, I thought, ” I don’t see what all the hype is about.”
That’s not even making mention of the smaller school’s players that defected.
Wells
May 10, 2007
The new Head Coaches that will make the most noise at their new schools are:
Steve Kragthorpe, Louisville – Almost by default, this guy should achieve more success than any other new coach due to the amount of talent he inherits, including Heisman candidate Brian Brohm.
Nick Saban, Alabama – He might be getting paid a ton of money, but Saban has proved himself on the collegiate level, leading Michigan State and LSU to prominence.
Randy Shannon, Miami – He makes the list simply because I refuse to believe that Miami will be down for long. Much like Bill Clinton, Randy Shannon might just be the right guy at the right time (like Clinton, his actual abilities might be worse than the overall success of the program).
Butch Davis, North Carolina – No reason to believe that Butch won’t be able to make UNC football matter once again.
Mark Dantonio, Michigan State – He, along with Jim Harbaugh at Stanford, are my 2 favorite hires as I think that both the Spartans and the Cardinal were able to snatch talented, young coaches away from smaller schools (Cincinnati and San Diego).
The new Head Coaches that will struggle at their new schools:
Dennis Erickson, Arizona State – In the year 2007, I just don’t get excited about Erickson anymore; maybe if this was 1987?!?!
Gene Chizik, Iowa State – I just think that winning in the Big 12 when you aren’t one of the Texas schools, Oklahoma, or Nebraska is hard.
Tom O’Brien, NC State – No move was more confusing than this one, which saw O’Brien leave Boston College for ACC rival NC State. I guess I am almost hoping he fails because it just doesn’t make any sense to me.
Raible
May 11, 2007
I think that Colt Brennan’s comments about the facilities at the University of Hawaii will ultimately go somewhat unnoticed. Let’s face it: This is freakin’ Hawaii we are talking about here; no matter how bad the facilities may be, it is paradise!
Raible
May 17, 2007
You know I posted the Brennan question on Monday, and it already feels like I read that article 6 years ago. It is pointless news and the only time it will be brought up again is during some Friday night WAC game when crappy commentators have nothing better to talk about.
Wells
May 18, 2007
Team(s), if any, that could be this year’s Boise St.:
TCU: Seem like a common pick among “experts”
Boise State: Kind of redundant, but why not again?
Hawaii: Brennan could be a darkhorse Heisman candidate
SJ State: Impressive in their bowl game victory last year
Raible
June 23, 2007
What’s gay is I don’t even think Colt Brennan will be a darkhorse Heisman candidate. He seems like he’s already in the running. Give me a break!!!!!!!!! Good picks though, and I’ll leave the mid majors to Raible. After all, we’re only 5 months away from one of these teams being undefeated and Raible preaching they deserve to be in the BCS Title Game!!!!!
Haver
June 23, 2007
CBS Sportsline did a little debate the other day about the best NCAA Football game from the 80’s, 90’s, and 00’s. The 2 choices for each decade were as follows:
80’s: ‘83 Holiday Bowl – BYU def. Missouri & ‘84 Orange Bowl – Miami def. Nebraska
90’s: ‘97 – Nebraska def. Missouri with “Flea-Kicker” & 1993 “Game of the Century” – Notre Dame def. Florida State
00’s: ‘05 – USC def. Notre Dame & ‘06 Rose Bowl – Texas def. USC
My Choices:
Best Game of the 1980’s – 1982 Sugar Bowl
In an intense battle featuring five lead changes, Pittsburgh quarterback Dan Marino clinched the 1982 Sugar Bowl with a late-game, 33-yard touchdown pass to tight end John Brown.
The Bulldogs had an outside shot at repeating as national champions thanks to sophomore running back Herschel Walker, who had banged out 1,807 yards during the regular season. But the Pittsburgh defense fulfilled its goal of slowing down Walker, holding the RB to 84 yards on 25 carries. Pitt RB Bryan Thomas responded with 129 yards on 26 rushes.
Still down three with 3:36 left, Pittsburgh started its final drive at its own 20. Thomas’ clutch running and a key scramble by Marino helped carry the Panthers to the Georgia 33. Facing a fourth down and five in the final minute, Pittsburgh called a timeout to consider its options.
Head Coach Jackie Sherrill called for a play designed to gain the five yards necessary for a first down. However, when Pittsburgh’s running backs kept Georgia’s blitzing linebackers in check, Marino had ample time to pick out an open man downfield. Brown was that man, catching Marino’s bomb in the middle of the endzone with just 35 seconds on the clock.
Marino, of course, went on to greater glory with the Miami Dolphins. The future Hall-of-Famer’s success has come as no surprise to Brown, who sensed greatness the first time the two shared a practice field.
The touchdown gave the Panthers a 24-20 win and a No. 4 ranking in the final AP poll. Georgia followed at No. 6.
Runner-Up: Pitt vs West Virginia, 1989
In 1989, both teams were ranked in the top 10. Pitt trailed 31-9 with less than 10 minutes remaining. The Panthers rallied, scoring 22 points as Ed Frazier kicked a 42-yard game-tying field goal as time expired.
Best Game of the 1990’s – Colorado vs. Michigan, 1994
If you insist on being literal, then the 1994 Colorado-Michigan game may not qualify as anyone’s best game. The No. 7 Buffaloes and No. 4 Wolverines played a nonconference game early in a season that ended without either team winning even a conference championship, much less a national championship.
Best game? Perhaps not. But for the sheer voltage that one athletic moment can deliver, you would be hard-pressed to find another in the last generation of college football. A lightning bolt struck Michigan Stadium, and while no one died, give or take the Wolverines career of head coach Gary Moeller (he resigned the following spring), the surge of electricity lit that memory for perpetuity.
Think of it all: the magic of Colorado quarterback Kordell Stewart’s 64-yard touchdown pass to Michael Westbrook after time expired, the call of ABC legend Keith Jackson as gravity did to Westbrook what Michigan defensive backs Ty Law and Chuck Winters could not and the quiet that draped over the sellout crowd as surely as if someone had sealed the rim of the Big House with a giant Tupperware lid.
Colorado won, 27-26, having scored two touchdowns in the final 2:16. The Buffaloes won out of a formation called Jets, on a play called Rocket. Three receivers lined up wide left: Westbrook, Blake Anderson and Rae Carruth.
Runner-Up: Pitt vs West Virginia, 1996
In 1996, Pitt secured its first winning season in six years with a thrilling, 41-38, triple-overtime victory. Terry Murphy caught a 12-yard pass from Pete Gonzalez for the winning touchdown.
Best Game of the 2000’s: 2006 Rose Bowl
As exciting as last year’s Fiesta Bowl was, nothing will ever top the 2006 Rose Bowl. The hype was enormous — two undefeated teams, No. 1 vs. No. 2, the top three Heisman vote-getters (Reggie Bush, Vince Young, Matt Leinart). Southern California was putting together one of the most dominating seasons in recent history and featured two of the best players of this decade, but coming into the game, their defense was suspect, and the big question was — could they stop Vince Young?
The game had nonstop action and a little controversy, too. Young’s knee looked like it was down before he pitched to Selvin Young, who ended up scoring in the first quarter. With USC leading 38-26 in the fourth quarter, it looked like the Trojans would be winning another national title, but Young took over the game. The fourth-down stop by Texas’ defense was a huge moment, allowing the Longhorns to get the ball back one final time. At that moment, everybody started to believe Young was going to lead Texas to victory — and that he did.
Runners-Up:
Pitt vs Penn State, 2000
The Panthers shut out intrastate rival Penn State for the first time since 1987, frustrating Rashard Casey while holding the Nittany Lions to just 225 total yards in a 12-0 victory at Three Rivers Stadium.
Nick Lotz kicked a pair of field goals and John Turman threw a 62-yard third-quarter touchdown pass to Rod Rutherford. No further meetings have been scheduled in the series.
Pitt vs West Virginia, 2000
Kevan Barlow almost singlehandedly spoiled Don Nehlen’s final regular-season game at West Virginia. Barlow established career highs by rushing for 272 yards and four touchdowns, leading Pittsburgh to a 38-28 Big East Conference victory in the 93rd edition of the “Backyard Brawl.”
A 6-1, 235-pound senior, Barlow enjoyed the second-best day by a running back in Pittsburgh history. Tony Dorsett rushed for a school-record 303 yards against Notre Dame in 1975. Barlow scored in the first half on runs of 56 and two yards, then added touchdowns of 30 and 24 yards in a three-minute span of the third quarter to give the Panthers a 24-3 lead. He set a record for rushing yards against West Virginia, breaking the mark of 216 set by Syracuse’s Larry Csonka in 1965.
Raible
July 14, 2007
Pre-camp rankings for the top 10:
1. West Virginia
2. USC
3. LSU
4. Michigan
5. Louisville
6. Wisconsin
7. Florida
8. Virginia Tech
9. Oklahoma
10. Rutgers
Top 5 for Heisman:
1. John David Booty
2. Darren McFadden
3. Pat White
4. Steve Slaton
5. Brian Brohm
Conference Winners:
Big East: West Virginia
ACC: Virginia Tech
Big Ten: Michigan
Big 12: Oklahoma
C-USA: Southern Miss
Mountain West: TCU
MAC: Ohio
SEC: LSU
Pac-10: USC
WAC: Boise State
Sun Belt: Troy
Raible
July 19, 2007
Seriously, how “Raible” is Raible putting WVU 1st, just so he can talk shit on them all year if they’re not 1st and he can say how disappointing they are. So Raible.
They should win every game by 50 though, so I’ll also put them at the top. Remember though folks, this is before I visit every team in the country’s camp.
1. WVU
2. Florida
3. USC
4. VTech
5. Louisville
6. LSU
7. Texas
8. Michigan
9. Ohio St
10. Rutgers
HEISMAN
1. Pat White
2. Tim Tebow
3. Darren McFadden
4. John David Booty
5. Steve Slaton
Dead last-Colt Brennan
CHAMPS
ACC-North Carolina-Butch means business and they play in such a pretty blue. Maybe a year (or a sport) off. V Tech a close 2nd, with a ton of badasses on defense and a much needed white QB
Big East-WVU-Need consistency on offense and I really hope the best 11 players are on the field on defense, not just the holdover starters.
Big Ten-I really like Ohio St here (Gholston and Laurinitis!). I think Penn St (Fags!!) will be tough. Gotta think Michigan will be huge as their Wolverines offense looks like they’re in the NFL. Will the defense look like they’re in High School?
Big 12-Texas-Colt to Limas all day all night.
Conference USA-Southern Miss-This conference sucks!
MAC-Ohio-They have Frank Solich. The other teams don’t.
Mountain West-TCU-Get out of Tommy Blake’s way! Kid has 1st round written all over him.
Pac-10-USC-Staying with my tradition of having man crushes with USC players (Udeze, Cody, LenDale to name 3) I love Taylor Mays!!!!! I also like Desean Jackson from Cal and Jonathan Stewart from Oregon, but USC will have about 18 guys on the first team All Offense and Defense at the end of the year.
SEC-Florida-Urban becomes a magician this year and spices up the offense. Derrick Harvey will have 20 sacks. Young players must step up. Oh, and TEBOW!
Sun Belt-UL Monroe-Shocks the world!
WAC-Boise St-Hawaii will miss Glanville, Ilama-Francis and their 800 pound RB duo too much. Ian Johnson is too white to lose!
Haver
July 20, 2007
I’m pretty pumped for a new rankings system as the MLB Power 14 endures a pretty long season and what better than Collegfe Football.
I loved the first two sets of rankings and instead of giving my top 10, I’d like to comment on Raible and Haver’s:
1. WVU- I’d love to put these guys at the top, but realistically they will find some way to break my heart again this year. The Big East Title will undoubtedly run through Morgantown, but games at S. Florida and Rutgers could be potential BCS busters. They will need to go undefeated if they want to play in New Orleans this January.
2. USC/ Florida- I actually have USC as my top dogs to begin the year, but games at Nebraska (as Raible mentioned) ND, Oregon, and Cal aren’t going to be that easy. However, they are stacked at just about every position. Florida, too, has a tough road ahead if it wants to repeat and I can only assume that the Road Stretch of LSU, Kentucky and Georgia will ultimately doom the Gators.
3. LSU/USC- For the Trojans see above. LSU in my mind is the team to beat in the SEC this year, and with all of their top tier games at home this year, don’t look for the Tigers to lose many games.
4. Michigan/ VA Tech- The Wolverines have one of the best offenses in the nation, but Haver is right, they graduated a ton of studs on defense, who actually looked like duds at the end of last year. UM also plays 8 home games this year, and 4 on the road, but a Nov. 10th trip to Camp Randall could play spoiler to what Blue and Gold fans believ is their year. VA Tech, as much as it pains me is the class of the ACC this year. They return a stud defensive unit and their QB/RB on the scoring side of the ball. They are another team that gets most of their conference foes at home but an early trip to LSU could be the difference maker between N. Orleans and another BCS destination.
5. Louisville- They get Rutgers at Home, but go to Morgantown to clash with the Eers. They have the offense to get it done, but need Brian Brohm to stay healthy and need to learn Steve Kragthorpe’s system fairly quickly. The defense will be the area of concern here, and a trip into Lexington might sneak up on the Cardinals.
6. Wisconsin/LSU- Wisconsin gets Michigan at home this year, but trips to Columbus and Happy Valley aren’t the easiest to chalk up a win. Also, don’t overlook the game at Illinois this year, a team who could surprise in the Big Ten.
7. Florida/Texas- The Horns have a pretty easy road into the top ten if you ask me. However, the Oklahoma game is always a toss-up and games at Oklahoma St. and Texas A&M will be no walk in the park. Colt will have to stay healthy and their secondary which was chewed up last year lost two veterans to the Draft.
8. Michigan/ VA Tech- see above.
9. Oklahoma/Ohio State- Two popular picks. I don’t even want to comment.
10. Rutgers- Anyone else see a drop-off for the Knights this year? I mean the Louisville game was the real difference in last year’s record, and do they really think that WVU with a healthy Pat White and Steve Slaton will be limited to 41 points? (Remember 3 OT’s) Once again they have a favorable non-conference schedule.
As of right now my top 10 would probably look like this:
1. USC
2. LSU
3. WVU
4. Michigan
5. VA Tech
6. Louisville
7. Texas
8. Florida
9. Wisconsin
10. Oklahoma
Heisman:(preseason mind you)
1. John David Booty
2. Darren McFadden
3. Colt McCoy
4. Pat White
5. Steve Slaton
Dead Last: Tim Tebow
Wells
July 23, 2007
What are the top programs of the past decade? That’s the question ESPN.com has attempted to answer this week. Fifteen college football experts and analysts ranked all 119 Division I-A programs, taking into account record, traditions, recruiting, facilities, coaches, attendance and support, among other criteria.
ESPN selected the following as its Top 5:
1. USC: Tradition, a talent pool that is local and deep, a coach who is both football smart and people smart, and a national identity among recruits as the “it” school: The Trojans have it all.
2. Ohio State: There may be eight Division I-A schools in the state, but there’s only one that rules it from Toledo to Cincinnati. Coach Jim Tressel has polished the Buckeyes program to a fine sheen.
3. Texas: Vast resources and vaster tradition. Coach Mack Brown has brought back the Darrell Royal touch with the common folk, and he wins like Royal, too.
4. Florida: Were it not for the three moderately successful Ron Zook years, the Gators would be ranked higher. Only a strong program could rebound as quickly as Florida did.
5. Oklahoma: The Sooners won one national championship and played for two others. Even after vacating eight victories at the NCAA’s behest, coach Bob Stoops is averaging nearly 10 wins a year.
Now, for MY Top 5:
1. USC: Only school ranked in ESPN’s Top 25 to have won 2 National Titles in the last decade. 5 conference titles, 4 bowl wins, and 90 wins have made this school, in my opinion, the Duke of college football.
2. FSU: While programs like Ohio State, Texas, Florida, and Michigan might be better now, no other school but USC dominated the last decade of college football more than Florida State. We’re talking 96 wins, 1 national title, 7 conference titles (more than any other school), and 5 bowl wins. They might be headed in the wrong direction, but FSU was a power over the last 10 years.
3. Michigan: Ohio State might have their number now, but it was Michigan that had the more impressive decade. The Wolverines have won a national championship and played in four Rose Bowls in the past decade. 96 wins, 1 national title, 5 conference titles, and 5 bowl wins. Now, if they can only figure out how to beat the Buckeyes again.
4. Ohio State: Jim Tressel has done such a fine job with this program. 97 wins, 1 national title, 4 conference titles, and 5 bowl wins.
5. Oklahoma: I still consider them to be more elite than Texas in the Big 12. 95 wins, 1 national title, 4 conference titles, and 4 bowl wins.
Next 5 (in alphabetical order): Florida, LSU, Miami, Tennessee, Texas
And for the 3 schools that seem to matter more than any others on this site…
19. WVU: The Mountaineers tailed off at the end of the Don Nehlen Era, but former WVU player Rich Rodriguez quickly rebuilt the program. West Virginia always has been known for its devoted fans. Now it’s known for its unique — and explosive — offense. 76-45, 3 conference titles, 3-5 in bowl games.
21. PSU: Joe Paterno may be ancient, but the Nittany Lions have been as mercurial as a teenager. Plenty of downs and some big ups (the 2005 Big Ten conference championship). And the fans, all six figures worth, continue to fill Beaver Stadium. 74-47, 1 conference title, 4-2 in bowl games.
T-52. Pitt: The Panthers, who have lost six straight against ranked teams after beating Notre Dame and West Virginia in a row in 2004, still haven’t gotten close to where they were a generation ago. They had a few false starts under Walt Harris before he fizzled out, and now Dave Wannstedt is trying to get some momentum but hasn’t broken through yet. He does seem to be doing OK on the recruiting front, but this is a program that really needs a signature win to maneuver up to the level of West Virginia and Louisville while not getting overtaken by Rutgers and South Florida, something that might have happened already. 63-56, 1 conference title, 2-4 in bowl games.
Raible
July 28, 2007
Southern California picked up 45 of a possible 60 first-place votes and is easily the No. 1 team in the initial USA Today Top 25 coaches’ poll released on Friday. Following USC is LSU at #2 and Florida at #3; The Tigers picked up four first-place votes and the defending national champion Gators grabbed nine. Texas is No. 4, with Michigan — which received two first-place votes — fifth.
The remainder of the top 10: West Virginia, Wisconsin, Oklahoma, Virginia Tech and Ohio State. The Big Ten has three teams in the top 10 — the most of any conference. The Southeastern Conference has six teams in the initial top 25, including No. 13 Georgia, No. 14 Auburn, No. 15 Tennessee and No. 20 Arkansas.
Boise State, which finished last season at No. 6, opens 2007 at No. 23. Florida State, unranked at the end of a 7-6 season a year ago, opens at No. 21.
For the record…
WVU: #6, 1,205 points
PSU: #18, 44 points
Pitt: Unranked, 0 points
It’s not where you start gentlemen…it’s where you end up!
Raible
August 3, 2007
Emmanuel Moody narrows his list to Florida and North Carolina. I’ll now go pleasure myself.
thav916
August 24, 2007
CBSSports.com (don’t DARE call it Sportsline) recently asked “Which is better: NFL or NCAA Football?” My thoughts:
I like College Football better, plain and simple. Give me the bands, cheerleaders, silly traditions (dotting the “I,” hitting the “Play Like a Champion” sign, etc.), student sections, and everything else that comes with the college game over the pro game. Ironically, I live in a city (Pittsburgh) that is clearly more pro football-dominated than it is college football-dominated, but I chalk that up to the enormous amount of success that the NFL’s Steelers have had in the last 30-some years.
Part of the reason why I, and I am assuming many, enjoy the NFL game is due to Fantasy Football. But I would argue that it is not the game that you actually enjoy, but rather the fact that you are managing a fantasy squad. Part of the reason I didn’t want to do Fantasy College Football is because I enjoy the sport so much, I don’t want to take away any of the fun of just being a fan by doing fantasy; how many times do you find yourself rooting against your favorite NFL team, hoping for a late Palmer to Ocho Cinco TD against the Steelers because Carson is your starting QB?
The Big House, Rocky Top, the Rose Bowl, Uga, Notre Dame Stadium, the Horseshoe, the Swamp, New Year’s Day Bowl Games, the BCS and its controversy. The only thing that the NFL has that can compare with these kinds of things is Lambeau, which is simply sacred.
College Football is cheaper and exists primarily for the working-class hero, the college alum, the young kids, etc. while the NFL seems to be more for corporate America, the more fortunate few, TV ratings, etc.
Think about this question and it should help you find your answer: Which day, during the football season, do you enjoy more – Saturday or Sunday? To me, Sunday can’t even touch Saturday…give me college football or, as Dean’s boy Patrick Henry might say, give me death.
P.S. Both College and Pro Football are great, obviously, and help to comprise my favorite month or so of the sports calendar in October. While March and early April is amazing, too (March Madness, NBA and NHL seasons heading down the stretch, MLB starting, etc.), October is my favorite (MLB Playoffs, NFL and NCAA Football, the start of NHL, NBA, and NCAA Basketball just around the corner).
Raible
August 25, 2007
The other night they showed a graphic of the 8 teams in D-1A from the state of Florida.
Florida
Florida St
Miami
South Florida
Central Florida
Florida Atlantic
Florida A & M
Florida International
Tell me that wouldn’t be the sweetest conference.
thav916
September 15, 2007
Noel Devine and Lesean McCoy are going to have some battles!
thav916
September 15, 2007
Anyone else annoyed by all of this Pac 10 talk? People are putting it neck and neck with the SEC and heads and shoulders above every other conference and I just don’t get it. USC is obviously amazing and Cal and Oregon have looked great, with big wins over Tennessee and Michigan, respectively. Yes, great for the conference. But that great? Florida pounded Tennessee even worse last week and Michigan, who knows with them?!? UCLA lost 44-6 to Utah and none of their other teams have been that unbelievable thus far. Here’s how I break down the conferences………..
1. SEC-Just heads and shoulders above every other conference. Just simply unbelievable year in and year out and maybe better than ever this year.
6. ACC-V Tech got creamed by LSU. Very similar to last year, they might have a random team or two emerge as the best in the conference but I just don’t think they have that top 5 or top 10 team that a conference needs. Good depth, but clearly my bottom conference right now.
Then I think you put the other 4 in a bag and you pull them out of a hat. I might rank them one way right now, and at 3:30 rank them another way. That’s how close these conferences are and that’s how little can happen to affect the rankings.
Pac 10 is solid, has a legit title contender, has 2 other bonafide teams, that look especially good because of high-powered offenses and early season wins as I mentioned above. The depth is decent, but I don’t put them any higher than any other these next three and don’t think it even sniffs the SEC.
Big East-Louisville losing against Kentucky hurt. WVU is a title contende. Rutgers looks to be a bigtime all-around team and has WVU at home. South Florida beat Auburn, but of course that didn’t look as good the following week when Auburn lost to Miss St. Cincinnati actually looks real tough and when you have a strong defense and good QB you can mean business. If Pitt had Stull I think they beat Mich State, but just my opinion. People ignore the fact that if the Big East only has 8 teams and you can’t compare another conferences fifth or sixth or seventh teams to our fifth, sixth, and seventh. I could go on for 3 hours about how much i hate this but i wont.
Big Ten-4 legit cream of the crop teams but will be interesting to see who emerges. Penn State @ Michigan is huge today. It’s almost a must win for both if they want to be The Team in the Big Ten. You can’t sleep on Ohio State, who’s defense looks amazing and offensive has rebuilt themselves. Wisconsin hasn’t looked good but just wins games. The offenses at Purdue, Illinois and Indiana make this conference intriguing.
Big 12-Oklahoma looks better than expected and Texas looks a little worse. Still the top 2 here. A&M losing to Miami hurt this conference badly. Texas Tech and Missouri can light it up but the defenses leave to be desired. Nebraska could be the 3rd team here but not a slam dunk
thav916
September 22, 2007
I see your point on the Pac-10. Personally, I kind of like the Pac-10 because they are televised every Saturday night, which is sweet. However, I consider the conference rankings to be similar to Haver’s:
1. SEC: I think I heard a stat last week that the SEC had 8 of the top 10 top recruiting classes this year…just another example of how dominant this conference is. SEC games are the most exciting to watch, especially with VERNE doing play-by-play every Saturday afternoon on CBS. It’s a damn shame that CBS doesn’t have more bowl games. I know that LSU is ranked #2 and looks great, but I am sticking with the Gators right now as my pick due to the emergence of Tim Haver Tebow.
2. Big East: If Louisville losing to Kentucky hurt, then the Cardinals trailing Syracuse by 14 at home is a 10-car accident. WVU is a legit title contender, as Haver mentioned. And Pitt is sweet. Even though they have to go on the road to play 2 solid teams (USF and Rutgers), I still maintain that there is no reason that WVU shouldn’t go undefeated and play in the BCS Championship.
3. Pac-10: USC is simply awesome; that fact earns them the #3 spot in my rankings. A solid case could be made that I am a “Homer” and put the Big East above the Pac-10 as a result, but oh well. There’s no reason to believe that USC doesn’t run the table, win the conference, and win the national title.
4. Big 12: Oklahoma is better than any team that the Big Ten has, which earns the higher ranking. Ron Franklin should be the only guy in the world that is allowed to announce Big 12 games. I still like the Sooners to win this conference.
5. Big Ten: Penn State is going to lose at Michigan today…mark it down. To boot, I expect the Big Ten championship to come down to Michigan-Ohio State, again, even with the slow start by Go Blue. Jim Tressel is the man.
6. ACC: I agree with Haver that this conference just doesn’t do it for me. VA Tech looks to be the best of the bunch, but they got hammered by LSU. BC could make some noise (with their Heisman darkhorse B.J. Ryan – I know, his name isn’t B.J.), too. I still expect the Hokies to win this conference.
Best of the Non-BCS:
WAC: Hawaii, Boise State, Fresno State
MWC: Air Force, BYU, TCU, Utah, UNLV
C-USA: Southern Miss, Tulsa, UCF
Independents: Notre Dame, Navy, Army
MAC: Kent State, Ohio, Directional Michigan Schools
Sun Belt: Troy, North Texas, Florida Atlantic
*I don’t expect any of these teams to “pull a Boise” and crash the BCS party.
Here’s a question for everyone: Who’s the favorite for the Heisman at this point? I think that McFadden is probably the best all-around player, but the fact that Arkansas just isn’t that good is gonna hurt him. Booty? Brohm? Ray Rice? One of the WVU guys? TEBOW??? It better not be Colt Brennan!
Raible
September 22, 2007
I hate how easy Raible thinks playing at Rutgers will be. Obviously hope he’s right, but I don’t understand why @ Rutgers is so much easier than games than the toughest game USC and Oklahoma have and that would mean all 3 would be undefeated. As I’ve said before, LSU’s schedule is set up perfectly for them, but it’s the SEC so it I’m fine with saying it’s a little tougher for them to go undefeated than any of the other three.
I was thinking something earlier about the Big Ten and Big 12 and then Raible illustrated my point. I think the Big Ten could probably actually be better if those top 4 teams are all legit and beat each other, because they are all great. But, I think in the perception of the people, the Big Ten would look better if one of those teams just steamrolled over the others and was a top 3 team in the country.
People laughed when I put Tebow in my preseason Heisman race. But it’s September 22nd and I put Tim Tebow at the top of my Heisman list. Pat White’s performance today puts him right back into the top 5. I’d say Slaton might be hovering on the outside of the top 5 but he’s ended up with good stats every game and if he continues to do that and WVU continues to win he’ll be right there. DMac is probably the top RB right now and his name might be the main reason. If Arkansas continues to lose I think Slaton will pass up DMac. Guys like Hart and Brohm have been excellent but their teams have not. John David Booty hasn’t done anything spectacular, but he’s the QB at USC and has been solid. Probably enough right there to put him in the top 5. Colt Brennan is still dead last. I think Ray Rice has to be in the mix and positioned right beside Slaton as of today. Andre Woodson has been unbelievable and is near the top as of today. Probably can only go down, as Kentucky will start to lose games. Sleeper candidate is Percy Harvin, but there’s no way anyone could consider him the top guy on Florida. It’s different than the WVU situation, where you can argue White OR Slaton is the top guy. DeSean Jackson always has a chance with his running, receiving, returning and reputation but he needs to do a little more in the receiving aspect. Dennis Dixon has been great and so has his team. Oh, sorry, I blinked, Tebow just threw a 37 yard TD pass. Two guys that probably have to be mentioned but it’s just so tough to gauge where they belong are Texas Tech’s Graham Harrell and Mike Crabtree. They are ridiculous.
My rankings as of today
1. Tim Tebow-Best player in college football already
2. Pat White-Does it all
3. Andre Woodson-Amazing, but not a great team
4. Darren McFadden-Amazing, but not a great team
5. John David Booty-Probably will rise as they win and they will win
6. Steve Slaton-Isn’t even playing great and then you look at his stats and say, “Wow.”
7. Ray Rice-Absolute mule
8. Percy Harvin-Underrated and I don’t think for much longer
9. Dennis Dixon-Has been phenominal
10. DeSean Jackson-Similar to Slaton, not great yet and still great overall stats
The bottom of my rankings could probably easily be changed, but don’t feel like doing any research
thav916
September 22, 2007
It’s not that I think playing at Rutgers will be easy. It’s just that I think that everything is in place for WVU to break through this year. If you want to be a national title contender, and this goes for WVU, USC, Oklahoma, etc., then you must win games like at Rutgers and at USF. Furthermore, you must “protect this house,” which is something that WVU was unable to do last year by losing to USF (the loss at Louisville was to be expected).
The fact of the matter is this: WVU will be favored to win every game on their schedule, meaning that they should be expected to go undefeated.
Raible
September 23, 2007
Things are in place for WVU but things are also in place for several other schools. That’s why I guess I question why it’s always clear cut that WVU should be in the title game but these other schools shouldn’t. They all should go undefeated. USC, LSU, and whoever is favored in the Oklahoma/Texas game will all be favored in every game this year. Along with WVU that’s 4 teams. And if all 4 go undefeated WVU won’t be playing in the National Championship game because of conference and out of conference schedule. I’m not even sure WVU will be favored against Rutgers but I’m also not really worried about it.
Next week I won’t do my Heisman rankings in the middle of games. I was able to factor in early games (such as Tebow and White’s dominance) and not include late ones (such as Desean’s bedshitting). Barely 24 hours after lots has changed.
-Kentucky beating Arkansas was huge for the Woodson-DMac matchup.
-Mike Hart is back in the picture. Even Brohm. 2 losses hurts. But will these teams end up with 2-3 losses or 4-6 losses. Big difference for end of year ramifications.
-Two guys I probably forgot but don’t know where they belong are Matt Ryan and Sam Bradford. Kinda refuse to believe Ryan is any good but I guess he is.
-Desean Jackson is no longer in my top 25.
thav916
September 23, 2007
I think the main thing with WVU is the fact that they haven’t been able to get over the hump. USC has won National Titles, as has LSU, Oklahoma, Texas, Florida, and Ohio State. As good of a coach, recruiter, and innovator that Rodriguez has been, he has yet to get over that hump and at least play for a National Title. The one thing he can’t control is what happens if there are more than one undefeated, however. In addition, I just don’t think that, as a whole, WVU’s schedule is as difficult as some of the other big schools’, especially with how poorly Louisville has played.
Look, I know that the majority of people that read stuff on this site, and seemingly everywhere else on the Internet, are WVU fans. And I have come to the realization that saying anything negative about the school is not well received. But I am not being negative here; I simply believe that WVU should go undefeated this year, and anything less than that will be a disappointment.
For the record, I just checked and WVU is a TD favorite at USF this week. With that in mind, there is no doubt in my mind that they will be favored when they take on Rutgers. Of course, I have been wrong before…
Raible
September 24, 2007
Mike Gundy is the man!
Raible
September 24, 2007
Haver and Raible-
You guys have been going back and forth on here so I’d like to hop in for a bit.
Conference Rankings:
SEC, Pac-10, Big East, Big Ten, Big XII, ACC…
I really think that the big ten and XII are always overrated becuase of the size of their conferences. I think that Oklahoma is probably the best team of the bunch, but when you break it down further it looks like the Big Ten could have the better teams this year.
How much do you guys love the Beast having 4 top 25 teams right now, could have been 5 if Louisville doesn’t suck it up.
Heisman-
Tebow
White
Woodson
JDB
Bradford
Ryan, Slaton and Rice are just a notchg below right now, and remain on the cusp because of their teams records.
Brohm, McFadden and Hart could still make it to NYC, we’ll see how there teams finish like Haver said.
The Rankings are still flawed:
I hate to be a complaining WVU fan and I know we have to take care of business, but when we beat MD 31-14 and they score a late TD, why do we drop? Florida survived Ole Miss this week and what they drop one spot behind Oklahoma?
I love that every team at the top has shown vulnerabilities. It’s up to the opposing coaches to exploit them.
If LSU makes it through the upcoming stretch of games unblemished, I may have to consider them in the Champ. game with 1 loss.
Anybody else think the PAC-10 is still a little overrated?
Anybody think Michigan will bounce back and win the Big Ten?
Anybody hear Chad Henne’s draft stock plummeting?
Wells
September 24, 2007
I guess I just feel like I think WVU should win every game too, and if they don’t I’ll be disappointed enough, and won’t want to read from someone else how it was a huge disappointment. Whether you’re WVU, USC or Boise State, it’s tough to go undefeated. Just hate reading how easy it should be so that if it doesn’t happen I’ll have to read how unbelievable it is that they didn’t win every game. I probably spin it the complete other way, so that if they don’t win, maybe I’ll try to make it less of a deal than it is. But the fact of the matter is if they lose I’ll be crying enough and won’t want to read about it from someone else. I’d just like to see the season play out, hope they go undefeated, hope Florida goes undefeated, have every other team lose, and have the greatest national championship game in the history of college football. And yes, I’d root 100% for Dub V, with a lot of Tebow touchdowns.
thav916
September 25, 2007
I hate that anyone with a brain realizes Tebow is the top candidate for the Heisman, but if you watch anything on TV, he’s barely top 5, just because he wasn’t top 10 to begin the season.
Really seems like a lot of legit candidates for the Heisman this year. More than usual.
I agree with Wells that it sucks that it seemed like the voters were doing the “fair” thing and adjusting the rankings based on performances. But the truth came out this week and that’s that they had an agenda and that was to get the top 4 as is. I really don’t care though, and as I say for pretty much everything, we just need to let things play out. This week is incredibly important for Dub V. If they can win on Friday, they can sit back and watch other teams lose on Sunday and then are guaranteed to move up the following week, as LSU plays Florida and one will lose.
Pac 10 is very overrated.
LSU might have the best resume if there are several 1 loss teams, but i think any team in the BCS undefeated makes it over LSU. Would they be better? Who knows. But it’s the resume that matters and beating a bad team has shown to be more important than losing to a tough team.
thav916
September 25, 2007
“Beating a bad team has shown to be more important than losing to a tough team.”
And this, my friends, is the reason why Boise State should have played for the National Title last year.
Raible
September 25, 2007
I was wrong. I thought for sure you’d pick out, “Whether you’re WVU, USC or Boise State, it’s tough to go undefeated” and say that’s the reason Boise State should have played for the National Title.
thav916
September 25, 2007
In this day and age it’s becoming pretty hard for anyone to go undefeated. The talent pool is beginning to spread to what was once mid-major and mid level programs and the balance of power has slightly shifted from the Miami and Florida State’s of the world, to the WVU’s and Cal’s.
If 4 of the top 5 teams went undefeated this is how I’d rank them at this point(ALTHOUGH FLORIDA AND LSU CAN’T):
1. LSU/Florida
2. USC
3. WVU
4. OKLAHOMA
-I think at the end of the season if you break down who Oklahoma has played as opposed to WVU, you have to give the edge to WVU.
-I think #1 position HAS to go to the SEC especially with the title game.
I figured it was time for a pointless rant….
Wells
September 26, 2007
After a wild and crazy weekend, here’s how I see the National Title chase shaping up as of now…
1. USC – I will keep them here until I see them lose.
2. LSU – Probably the most impressive team so far.
3. Cal – Big win at Oregon this weekend.
4. Ohio St. – Witt’s boys just keep winning.
5. Wisconsin – Ugly wins count the same as pretty ones.
6. BC – No one is talking about this team…no one.
7. Kentucky – Big one vs. Spurrier and the Cocks on Thurs.
8. USF – Can they keep it going after beating the ‘eers?
9. Hawaii – Might not deserve it, but still undefeated.
10. Cincinnati – Very impressive thus far this season.
I don’t wanna hear any arguments about 1-loss teams, at least not this early in the season. While it’s probably true that teams like Florida, Oklahoma, WVU, etc. are better than the teams listed here, they don’t deserve to be mentioned in this breath at this time due to their losses this weekend. What should be interesting to see is how many teams finish the season undefeated. Pitt is awful, by the way.
Raible
September 30, 2007
Yetti and I were talkin tonight and we said some similar things. We mentioned 7 teams and thought they had to be the top 7. Kinda ironic that the one team we didn’t mention was the team “no one is talking about” which is apparently true. I’m willing to throw BC into the mix and say that’s the top 8. After that I’m not as certain that the Hawaii, Cincy, Purdue, Kansas, Arizona St, and Connecticuts of the world should be next but I’ll also say that these teams will either keep winning or lose, and the 1 loss teams will either win more or lose more, and it’s not really worth an argument.
HEISMAN
1. Tim Tebow-Would have been incredible if he won tonight but still a good performance.
2. Andre Woodson-Kentucky keeps winning, Woodson keeps being huge. Threw an interception, but 5 tds are kinda nice.
3. Darren McFadden-So many teams have lost, and the undefeated teams remaining don’t have stars. DMac is amazing.
4. John David Booty-Subpar game but they won and he’s still the QB at USC.
5. Desean Jackson-What one week can do for you, eh? Finally had the receiving game we were all waiting for in an absolutely huge game. Can’t believe this wasn’t on TV today.
6. Matt Ryan-Only his 4th best game of the year, but I guess I’ll start to give this guy some credit.
7. PJ Hill/Chris Wells-Holy beasts. You don’t want to get in their way on the football field and if things continue, you won’t want to get in their way on the Heisman list either.
8. Steve Slaton/Ray Rice/Mike Hart-Hart is most consistent but also gets about 80 carries a game. When WVU loses, Slaton doesn’t play well…WVU lost. Rutgers lost to Maryland, that about says it all for Rice.
9. Dennis Dixon/Pat White-Dixon played better than White this weekend, but I put them about even. Either could finish in top 5, either could finish out of top 20.
10. Percy Harvin-Another strong receiving game, but no td’s and no win.
11. Michael Crabtree-Are you freaking kidding me? This dude is insane. I guess Graham Harrell should be synonomous with Crabtree, but I feel like Crabtree gets the nod.
Really fell-Sam Bradford
Still dead last-Colt Brennan
thav916
September 30, 2007
I think that my vote for the Heisman, as of today, would go to Andre Woodson. However, I fully expect Kentucky to lose at some point, which could obviously severely hurt his chances. Nevertheless, Woodson gets a great opportunity to impress on Thursday night on ESPN against Spurrier and the Cocks.
Raible
September 30, 2007
Well, I think that my vote for Heisman just changed after the rather poor performance by Woodson and his Kentucky mates on national TV tonight. Not only does the loss knock the Wildcats from the ranks of the unbeaten, but it almost certainly puts a major dent in the Heisman campaign of Woodson.
With that in mind, you’ve gotta think that Darren McFadden is smiling right about now. No one has put up better stats that McFadden, and with teams starting to lose some games and come back to the pack, McFadden should once again find himself atop many Heisman lists. Tebow continues to play well, but that loss last week, at home mind you, was tough…especially for a starting QB on a favored team that is upset in their own building.
I don’t want to jinx him, but I think that my vote for the Heisman, as of today after the loss by Kentucky, would go to Darren McFadden.
Raible
October 5, 2007
If I can be honest for once about the Heisman, I think it’s gonna be tough for Darren McFadden to not win the award. Name recognition, reputation, and “preseason Heisman ranking” are almost as important as stats, which are almost as important as team success. People just kinda think he’s gonna win. And he is second in the nation in rushing yards and has been great each and every game. I think Tebow and John David Booty are his main competition. I think Tebow is a year off and Booty just doesn’t do enough. There are some other guys that can make some noise, but I don’t think they have the total package that a Heisman needs.
I don’t think it’s right for a guy like Tebow to get penalized for being 4-1 and somehow McFadden not be penalized for being 2-2 but it probably is the truth. Tebow’s yards per attempt, completion % and combined statistics are ridiculous. He has two interceptions and neither were the result of a bad pass. 19 total TD’s. But truth be told, I think this season for Tebow will be similar to McFadden’s last year. Both true sophomore, bursting on the scene with both spectacular and solid all-around play, basically bein in the mix for the Heisman but not having an actual chance, as they’re fighting from too far down the list. What McFadden did, and I expect (hope) Tebow also does, is head into their Junior season as the clear cut favorite.
I think McFadden would be a near shoe-in if he steps up his all-around game. He’s done virtually nothing in the receiving and returning games. One passing td is nice but a few more would be amazing. He clearly has the rushing stats and ability. It’s pretty obvious that his only downfall is going to be team play. They are only 2-2 right now. Should have automatic wins against Chatanooga, Florida International, and Mississippi State at home. I think going 8-4 gets him the Heisman. That would require winning 3 out of 5 against Auburn, @Mississippi, South Carolina, @Tennessee, and @LSU. 7-5 is doable, 6-6 is very questionable. He’ll certainly be on the big stage several times and even in losses needs to have good games.
I think Tebow would have a chance if Florida could finish in the 10-11-12 win range, but it looks like the Gators are a year off. Tomorrow against LSU is obviously huge. A win and strong performance could put him in the lead. A loss and strong performance could keep him where he is. A loss and poor performance could signal the end.
The other guy that’s just gonna be there, whether you like it or not, is John David Booty. It looks like USC and LSU will do a lot of winning this year. Flynn doesn’t do enough to be in the mix, but Booty does. You feel like he’s not doing a whole lot but yet is on pace for a 30 TD season. Because he’ll keep winning and because he can play even better than he has, odds are that he’ll be in New York and could still win by default.
I think it’s kinda backwards that because there aren’t many bonafide stars on the top 5 teams that the award might have to be given to the best player in the country, DMac. It should always go to the best player in the country. But it doesn’t.
There are obvious sleepers, and it’s not even that the player is a sleeper, but their teams are sleepers. If a team like Cal would beat USC and be undefeated, DeSean Jackson and/or Justin Forsett could sneak into the discussion. BC keeps winning and watch out for Matt Ryan. Chris Wells/PJ Hill like i stated in my most recent top 10 list will hang around as long as they’re winning and running. I dont think Pat White and Steve Slaton can win, but they can easily get back in the top 5 by running the table. I think Mike Hart had a Ron Dayne-like chance (for his career as much as his single season) but put him and Ray Rice in the same category as the Eers. Kinda had a feeling Woodson peaked but he’ll still end up with a great year. I think the fact that people are finally waking up to him will help his cause and his buzz is hotter than anyone’s right now.
Out of that group, I think the one that has the legit shot is Jackson. He has the big name and big reputation. He does his damage in a variety of ways…receiving, running and returning. They could be undefeated a little easier than people realize. They already beat Oregon and have USC at home. I’m not saying I expect any or all of this to happen, but I think if all of those guys have their best case scenario seasons, Jackson is the one with an actual chance to win.
Lots can change, but i think the only guys that currently have a chance and projected to have a chance are McFadden, Booty, Tebow and DeSean as the sleeper.
thav916
October 6, 2007
Well within 24 hours, at 3:10 PM I’m already changing my mind. I was thinking about it a little before the game, but certainly am now after. I’m adding Mike Hart as the 5th guy that “Could” win it. Everyone wanted to dismiss him after they lose their first two, but Hart had 100 yards in each game. Was monsterous against Notre Dame. Then his last two performances weren’t spectacular because he averaged 3.5 yards per carry. But at the end of the year you won’t look at anything but the yardage (153 and 106) and he’ll get credited for being an absolute warrior with his 44 carries against Penn State. Today he has a monster game against a weak opponent that will be huge for his stats. Michigan has a chance to run the table and Hart is a senior that is well-liked and respected across the country. For all of these reasons, I think Hart belongs in the group with DMac, Booty, Tebow and Desean as the five guys that can win it.
Matt Ryan was a monster today. But it’s his draft stock that’s rising more than his Heisman stock.
Brian Brohm might win some QB awards, but no longer has any chance for the Heisman.
I know I shouldnt post in the middle of the day, but couldn’t stay away.
thav916
October 6, 2007
4 interceptions and a loss at home to Stanford? So much for John David Booty!
Raible
October 7, 2007
You know, I really agree with Haver’s sentiments about Mike Hart. I respect the living hell out of Hart, and the dude is just a freakin’ beast! With McFadden fumbling twice today, let’s take a look at the case for Hart…
-If Michigan rebounds to win the Big Ten after starting 0-2, then I think Hart could have it wrapped up as the Wolverines will have stolen back the national headlines.
-Even in those 2 losses, Hart was the man.
-The effort against Penn State was legendary.
-He has become the all-time leading rusher in Michigan’s history.
Game-by-Game…
vs App State: 23 att, 188 yds, 3 td
vs Oregon: 25 att, 127 yds
vs ND: 35 att, 187 yds, 2 td
vs PSU: 44 att, 153 yds, 1 td
@ Northwestern: 30 att, 106 yds, 1 td
vs E. Mich: 22 att, 215 yds, 3 td
Most importantly, ZERO fumbles thus far. Echoing Haver’s sentiments, I really feel like Hart, and Michigan for that matter, have a chance to make some serious noise before the season is over.
Raible
October 7, 2007
Sadly, I have to confess that I have not been able to watch the NCAA football consistently this year. I have caught every WVU game and not much more, therefore feel that I am not at liberty to speak about the current Heisman race.
However a few things that have really irked me:
- Oklahoma not being punished harder for losing to COLORADO!!
-USC not being punsihed further for their record -setting loss to STANFORD.(Michigan dropped considerably when they lost to the reigning back to back D1AA national champions. This loss was on par with if not worse than Louisville losing to Syracuse.
- I’m excited/nervous to see the first BCS rankings this weekend.
- Not that it hasn’t been prominent in the past, but does it seem that problems in college football are being publicized more nowadays?
- It’s not ridiculous to think that a defensive player could win the Heisman; But c’mon.
- Every week I look at other team’s schedules and think, geez they havent played anyone, however as much as they suck ND has a tough game every week. JOIN A CONFERENCE, it’s not the 20th century anymore!
- Is there any coach sitting on a hotter seat than Steve Kragthrope? You might have to look in the Beast to find another.
That’s all for now, and I promise I will pick up the posts.
Wells
October 12, 2007
I think there is a difference between Michigan losing early and getting knocked out of Top 25 and Oklahoma/USC losing and dropping down a few spots. When Michigan lost, they were 0-1. Hadn’t beaten anyone. Only played one game, and lost. So you look at their season as a whole and you have to put a lot of 1-0 teams over the 0-1 at the time Wolverines. Now when teams lose they already have 4-5 other wins on their resume and you have to look at the season as a whole. Each possibly could be a little lower and I won’t argue that, but it’s the nature of the pollsters to keep the top teams close to the top.
It’s kind of an interesting subtopic, should teams with the same record be ranked based on how good/bad the teams they’ve beaten or how/bad the team they lost to.
I also think (without any research) that if Michigan would have beaten Oregon they’d probably be around the top 10 right now.
Petrino and Kragthorpe are ironically both sitting on fire.
I’d even take it another level and say problems in all of sports are more publicized these days.
Notre Dame should join the Big East. I think Memphis also should. Central Florida would be a great idea as Wells brought up to me recently right around the same time I was thinking it. I’d love Central Florida, but in terms of basketball Memphis seems like an easier fit and not sure of the complete ramifications. If people are gonna penalize the Big East for having 8 teams they need to add at least 2 more until they become taken more seriously in my opinion.
thav916
October 13, 2007
Ok, so when I couldn’t watch the Bosox walloping the Indians last night I’d occasionally flip to the Hawaii-San Jose St game. I must say that I enjoyed watching Man vs Wild 100 times more while I waited for the Rockies game.
It was worse than a Parsippany High School- Dover football game. The worst part? I wake up this morning to see ESPN glorifying COLT BRENNAN! He sucks. His stats were/and are padded by his 75 PASSES and he came back against SAN JOSE ST!! ESPN failed to mention he threw 4 Int’s and almost single handedly created the defecit which “HE CAME BACK FROM.”
If he is in NY for the Heisman presentation, it will seriously be the greatest American tragedy since Bobby Hurley’s car accident.
Wells
October 13, 2007
Also did anyone hear that the QB for SAN JOSE ST. is the son of a former World’s Strongest man? Could you imagine being at a HS game and taunting on ADAM TAFRALIS or James Laurinitis?
You probably wouldn’t live to tell about it….
Wells
October 13, 2007
Please refer to just about every Heisman list I’ve ever had for my thoughts on Colt Brennan.
thav916
October 13, 2007
What, you don’t like the sweet islands of Hawaii cut into his hair?
Raible
October 13, 2007
-Has there ever been a school-position-cool-name trifecta like: Marion Barber III-Laurence Maroney-Amir Pinnix?
thegreatawakening
October 13, 2007
With the release of the first BCS Rankings, I thought I would unleash the first Raible Rankings. Anyone that knows me knows that I like to think out of the box (Even to this day, no one will be able to convince me that Boise State didn’t deserve to play Ohio State in last year’s BCS Championship) when it comes to College Football, so please take that into consideration when viewing these rankings.
Without further ado…
1. Ohio State (7-0): Seem to be the best of the unbeaten, especially when you consider that their coach is Sweet Jim Tressel.
2. South Florida (6-0): Why not? The Bulls own impressive victories over both WVU and Auburn. If they run the table, they deserve to play for the title. Anyone else want to see a Big East squad take on Brian Witt’s beloved Buckeyes?
3. Boston College (7-0): I don’t see them getting past Virginia Tech, but you never know. At this point, however, BC deserves to be mentioned as a title contender and their QB, Matt Ryan, deserves to be mentioned as a Heisman candidate.
4. Arizona State (7-0): They might not be the best team in the Pac-10, but they are the only undefeated one.
5. Kansas (6-0): Both Oklahoma and Texas are probably better, but it is the Jayhawks that are perfect so far…and more deserving of this spot.
6. Hawaii (7-0): I don’t think this team is as talented as last year’s Boise State squad, and a big part of me hopes that they lose to this year’s Boise State team, but Hawaii deserves this ranking at this point in time.
7. USC (5-1): I thought that this was the best team in the country just a few weeks ago, so I have no problem ranking them highest among teams with a loss. I still see them winning the Pac-10.
8. LSU (6-1): I have had similar thoughts about LSU as I have had about USC. It’s hard to believe that a 3 OT loss may cost them a chance at playing for the title.
9. Oklahoma (6-1): They have better wins than WVU so far, so they get the better ranking as of today.
***Wow…Matt Holliday is still so pissed about me talking shit on him a couple of weeks ago!***
10. West Virginia (5-1): They still have quite possibly the best offense in college football. It will be interesting to see if Coach Rod can get this team to focus and run the table through the rest of their schedule.
11. California (5-1): They have to be kicking themselves after losing out on a chance to be ranked #1 in the country. Their wins over Tennessee and Oregon, though, are still impressive.
12. Oregon (5-1): I know they lost to Cal, but I am still impressed every time I see this team’s highlights. The Pac-10 is real solid this year.
13. South Carolina (6-1): The ol’ Ball Coach has this program among the nation’s elite.
14. Kentucky (6-1): HUGE win over LSU this weekend. Now I fully expect them to lose to Florida next weekend.
15. Virginia Tech (6-1): Definitely flying under the radar right now, the Hokies are still my pick to win the ACC.
I don’t feel like ranking any more teams now, but there are certainly still some good ones out there, including my pick to win the Big Ten (Michigan) and the defending National Champions (Florida).
Heisman Rankings through games played on October 13th:
1. Mike Hart
2. Matt Ryan
3. Darren McFadden
4. Tim Tebow
5. Andre’ Woodson
Raible
October 15, 2007
So much changes every week that I think the weekly rankings are borderline pointless. Should Arizona St be ranked ahead of USC? Hell no. But should USC really be ranked ahead of Arizona St? No, probably not. Does that make sense? Not one bit. I guess what I’m saying is that in college football there’s a lot of drama throughout the year but all of these teams have huge games left to be played. By no means is it always perfect but by the end of the year the picture is a lot clearer.
I actually think based on what’s gone on so far this year South Florida should be ranked #1. They beat a top 25 non-conference BCS school (Auburn) and a top 10 conference foe (WVU). Ohio State and Boston College have done neither. But that’s just as of now. By the end of the year all these teams will either have proven their worth.
Heisman is a long the same lines. Desean Jackson is officiallly out of the race and probably not in the top 25 anymore. “IF” Michigan runs the table and Mike Hart rushes for 100 yards, “IF” Boston College runs the table and Matt Ryan has monster games, “IF” Florida runs the table and Tim Tebow averages 5000 yards a game, “If if if”. I will say Darren McFadden’s chances took a big hit this week. No one seems to want the Heisman and no one wants to seem to want the BCS Championship game. It’s kinda nice that the final 6 weeks will decide these things rather than the first 6 weeks, as it often seems to be.
thav916
October 15, 2007
If there’s anything better than watching Tim Tebow live, it’s watching a DVR recording of Tim Tebow knowing he scored 5 total TD’s.
We really might get to see one of the truest Heisman’s ever this season. Usually, the Heisman is a guy on a top 3 team and a preseason favorite that just plays well all year. With no dominating teams, no stars on the teams doing great, and the preseason favorites falling off a little bit, the Heisman is wide open and could actually be awarded to the flat out best player in college football.
Wins are important, but I think if you play well in a loss it doesn’t hurt you as much as in previous seasons. We almost have to stop looking at just team success and focus in on players.
Tebow and Woodson were unreal yesterday. Mike Hart missing a game hurt his cause but if he bounces back next week I think he’ll still be fine. McFadden had a nice bounce back game but am I the only one noticing that Felix Jones has basically outperformed McFadden this season (Jones has 774 yards on 81 carries, 9.6 ypc, and 7 tds to DMacs 932 yards on 169 carries, 5.5 ypc, and 7 tds)? I really didn’t think Matt Ryan had a chance a month ago, but without other guys stepping up, I think he has as good a shot as anyone. This Thursday will be huge for him. I think we all knew it was coming but Graham Harrell is back out of the running (Will Crabtree ever get recognition?). DeSean Jackson woke up yesterday but too little too late. Brohm had been having monsterous numbers and probably still had a chance with how the season is going, but this past loss had to put a damper on that.
So looks like as of October 21st, we’re lookin at (in order of how much im obsessed with them) Tebow………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….Hart/Woodson/Ryan for the Heisman. Can’t count DMac out because of who he is, but he’s out as of today on my list. Did I forget anyone?
thav916
October 21, 2007
Raible Rankings, Week 2:
1. Ohio State (8-0): Big one next weekend at Penn State.
2. Boston College (7-0): Big one on Thursday at VA Tech.
3. Arizona State (7-0): Big one next weekend vs Cal.
4. Kansas (7-0): Big one next weekend at A&M.
5. Hawaii (7-0): Boise State and Washington still loom.
6. USC (6-1): My pick as the best of the 1-loss teams.
7. LSU (7-1): What a win against Auburn!
8. Oklahoma (7-1): Wells LOVES the Sooners!
9. Virginia Tech (6-1): Need to show BC who is the best.
10. Oregon (6-1): They get another big shot vs USC.
11. South Florida (6-1): Beat WVU, so they get the call here.
12. West Virginia (6-1): Quite possibly the best 1-loss team.
13. Missouri (6-1): Not too difficult of a remaining schedule.
14. Virginia (7-1): They might only lose 1 or 2 games.
15. Connecticut (6-1): Big win on Friday night for UConn.
Heisman Rankings through games played on October 20th:
1. Tim Tebow: HUGE game against Kentucky.
2. Andre’ Woodson: HUGE game against Florida.
3. Michael Hart: His absence yesterday naturally drops him.
4. Matt Ryan: No game yesterday means a slight fall.
5. Ray Rice: His big game gets him on the list.
Raible
October 21, 2007
Shit, Ray Rice.
thav916
October 22, 2007
I’ve gone back and forth with the playoff system. Up until last year I thought it was a no brainer. HAD TO HAPPEN. After last season I started changing my mind a little bit. Just love all the positives, every game matters and getting one of the truest champions in all of sports. Even when the BCS didn’t work, you’re still guaranteed to get 2 of the top 5 teams in college football playing for the title, and in no other sport are you guaranteed a top 5 team wins it all.
But I think I’m back thinking a playoff is the way to go. This can be argued as a good thing, but I don’t like how college football has somehow become, “If you lose one game, your season is ruined.” Maybe this year is showing you can lose 1 and be ok, but we’re also gonna have a huge clusterfuck of 1 loss teams where only 2 play for the title. I’ll be the first to say that before complaining, if your team woulda simply not lost, they’d be there, but still. The main reason I don’t like the current system is because of all of the variables that can cause a loss.
A team can play zero top 50 teams in their non-conference schedule, beat them all by 1 point, and in the current system, that’s better than a team playing 4 top 25 teams, blowing out 3 of them and barely losing one. Is Team A really a better team than Team B? I don’t think you can say Yes OR No from that scenario, but Team A would certainly be ahead in the polls. There’s just too much difference in scheduling.
In addition, if a team doesn’t have it’s star QB for a game and loses, it’s not a true indication of that team not being the best in the country.
Or a team loses it’s first game of the season but then gets hotter than anyone, or if a team loses a freak game because of a freak play from some team playing better than ever.
Some of these teams might still play for the national championship game but it’s no guarantee.
So many different conferences, so many different styles. The only way to tell who’s better is by putting them on the field. In today’s system, it’s all about the best resume, but it really isn’t. Like I said, a team is rewarded for a bad schedule. In a 8 team playoff, every game would still matter. All teams involved would have 1 or 2 losses. 3 at the most. I’d much rather complain and whine about the 9th best team getting scewed than the 3rd team.
We need to start seeing the best team in college football win the title. Not the one with the easiest road.
thav916
October 22, 2007
Definitely need a playoff. I favor a four-teamer personally. I feel like an 8-teamer opens up for more Cinderella stuff, but that’s not what I’m personally looking for.
I’m more concerned with never eliminating the best team in the country from the picture. The three undefeated team scenario (or I guess the potential of three one-loss teams this year) is hideous right now. On top of that, the annual SEC orgy pisses me off. If four teams get in, the best SEC team is going to get in almost every year, and if they don’t then they pretty much had to have been at least a game worse then the #4, and have nothing to complain about. Either way, they will get to/have to prove themselves against the other conference champs, and the tough-schedule apologists will: A. get their wish, and B. stop complaining throughout the media. Don’t get me wrong, I love the SEC and I want to see it’s best team in the picture every year too.
While I’m at it was there anything better than Penn State and Wisconsin beating Tennessee and Arkansas in the bowls last year to kill (ok maybe not) the whole “the 6th best team in the SEC would….” thing? Yes there was, West Virginia smashing Georgia in the Sugar Bowl (I think it was in Atlanta that year too?).
Anyway, I think a four-teamer eliminates the serious controversies while keeping the playoff exclusive and the regular season crucial.
thegreatawakening
October 22, 2007
Me and Raibs have said in an ideal world you could just play out the season and then decide how many teams belong. If two legit undefeated, there’s nothing better than the BCS Title Game. If 3 undefeated, or a situation like last year, 4 is great. I think this year, you’d have to go with 8, and I could even agree with someone thinking 16.
I agree that 4 would be nice in that it’s a minor step up but a big step up. You said it perfectly that a 4 teamer is perfect for the 3 team undefeated and last year’s situation.
I think I prefer 8 to anything else if I’m making a decision, though. Gets more conference winners involved. Allows for the possibility of a team to lose it’s first 2 for whatever reason and then win 10 straight playing better ball than anyone. It allows for a Boise St or Hawaii to be involved, which I think they should be if they go undefeated. Let them prove it on the field. If they win 3 straight, you can’t say their not the national champion. If they get pounded by the top overall seed, you can’t complain you didn’t get a chance. I think the 8 teamer still has all teams with 0 or 1 loss, and the possibility of a team with 2 losses in an impossible schedule.
I think 16 lasts too long. I think that allows for a Cindarella team, or more of the 2nd or 3rd best teams in a conference playing, something I don’t want to see too much of. Don’t want to get too far away from what we have now.
thav916
October 22, 2007
Shit, Dennis Dixon. He definitely needs to be involved in the mix as of today.
1721 passing yards, 16 TD’s, 3 Int’s, 423 rushing yards on 5.6 ypc and 7 TD’s.
Shit.
thav916
October 22, 2007
ESPN.com is reporting that Michigan’s Chad Henne and Michael Hart both might sit out this Saturday vs Minnesota. If this is indeed the case, you have to think that Hart’s Heisman campaign would take a major hit. I love Hart as much as the next guy, and I honestly think he might be the best player in the country, but missing 2 of your team’s games would certainly cause him to fall down the list of contenders. With the way that Tebow, Woodson, etc. are playing right now, I don’t think that Hart’s Heisman chances could afford to take another week off.
Of course, Mike Hart probably doesn’t give a shit because he is sweet. He probably doesn’t care if he wins a Heisman. He clearly will be playing on Sundays next year, and his Wolverines are back in the mix for the Big Ten title. Sitting out against Minnesota, another Big Ten team to lose to a I-AA opponent, probably wouldn’t hurt Michigan’s chances of victory.
Raible
October 23, 2007
If we are talking Heisman, my top 5 in no order:
Ryan, Woodson, Tebow, Dixon and Ray Rice.
It’s funny because Hart climbed back in, then Rice.
Dixon has definitely been overlooked, and dont be surprised if three of these guys are different after Dec 1st, hell after next week.
Haver you are absolutely right and I think Mcfadden has not only lost ground because of his team’s record, but the fact that Felix Jones is outperforming him.
Hart and Crabtree are on the outside looking in. An absolute sleeper would be Todd Reesing, QB, Kansas. Won’t win, but stats aren’t far off from Ryan’s. Also, can’t believe people havent really mentioned Bradford.
Wells
October 25, 2007
Pick ‘EM:
BC-Va Tech
PSU-OSU
Oregon-USC
Cal- AZ state
WVU- Rutgers
Wells
October 25, 2007
I think there’s a definite top 6 right now, but if Hart sits another game, he might fall completely off the map. I think the thing about the Graham Harrell’s and Todd Reesing’s of the world is that people just keep expecting them to play tougher teams and have lesser games. Not to mention the lack of star power and name recognition. Part of the Heisman race is predicting what will happen.
I’ve broken down about as much as I can break down so I’ll just say that I simply love how wide open the race is. No matter how you rank those top 6 this week, I think the order could be the exact opposite next week. That’s great.
I think Tebow’s in the lead now. I think Rice is the hottest name. I think Hart’s injury is making him fall the fastest. I think Woodson is the steadiest. I think Dixon and Ryan have the most to gain this week (and also lose). Fantastic!
VTECH
OSU
OREGON
CALIFORNIA
WVU
thav916
October 25, 2007
BC-Va Tech
PSU-OSU
Oregon-USC
Cal- AZ state
WVU- Rutgers
It’s not fair now, but I would have picked VA Tech anyway. I’ve also got Ohio State, USC, Cal, and WVU.
Raible
October 26, 2007
Could the cream actually be rising to the top?!? A lot of people expected VTech, USC, Cal, and even Penn State to win to muddy the picture completely. But Boston College, Oregon, Arizona State and Ohio State all rose to the occassion and won. It eliminates those losers from the national title picture completely and starts to make you wonder just how many of those teams will win out.
I still expect Boston College and Arizona State to lose. Ohio State and LSU still have tough games left on their schedule and quite frankly, too much has happened this year to just expect WVU, Oklahoma and Oregon to win out no problem. I preach all year that by the end of the year things will play out and be fine. Every team has a chance to prove themselves. I expect in another month for the picture to be painted quite nicely, with your most deserving teams at the top.
HEISMAN
1. Dennis Dixon-Love the way he handles that offense. Plays so similarly to Vince Young. Monsterous win. Outstanding stats. Bonus points to handing off to a huge man crush of mine, Jonathan Stewart.
2. Tim Tebow-Had a good game yesterday but needed the win to stay at the top. Just wasn’t his usual self with the shoulder injury and it showed. Still almost willed his team to victory. Will continue to have tough games and will be interesting to see if he can bounce back.
3. Andre Woodson-I think Woodson has locked himself somewhere in the 3 through 8 ranking. I don’t think he can rise too much, but think he can be passed up by others that emerge. I think my top 3 are the 3 best players in college football, but team success could cause others to rise and these guys to fall.
4. Todd Boeckman-The QB on the undefeated #1 team. Has put up good stats. Putting him over Ryan for spite but check out the stats, he’s just as good. Starting to get recognition. Could easily fall off with one bad performance in a loss, but he’s worth mentioning for now.
5. Matt Ryan-Had a bad game but great game for Heisman. Big plays at the end and a win are just as important as anything. Just like with Boeckman if these guys win, they’ll rise on my list.
Next-Ray Rice had a big game but no TD’s and a loss. Mike Hart missed his 2nd straight game and is done as far as the Heisman is concerned. Darren McFadden had a 4 TD game but not the yardage to go with it. Felix outperforms him once again. Pat White was a monster but too little too late.
thav916
October 28, 2007
Raible Rankings, Week 3:
1. Ohio State (9-0): Shut up Penn State!
2. Boston College (8-0): Good win last week.
3. Arizona State (8-0): Good win last week.
4. Kansas (8-0): Good win last week.
5. Hawaii (8-0): Still undefeated.
6. LSU (7-1): Saban Bowl next weekend.
7. Oregon (7-1): Big win last week.
8. West Virginia (7-1): Big win last week.
9. Oklahoma (7-1): Passed by WVU this week.
10. Missouri (7-1): Just keep winning.
Heisman Rankings through games played on October 27th:
1. Dennis Dixon: I echo Haver’s sentiments.
2. Matt Ryan: Great finish on Thursday night.
3. Tim Tebow: Good stats, but lost.
4. Pat White: Monster game last week.
5. Ray Rice: Good stats, but lost.
Raible
October 28, 2007
Can we get an official definition of Raible Rankings? I’m assuming it’s 0% percent on how good you think they are and 100% based on who you think deserves to play in the National Title Game? Is the tiebreak for a list of teams with the same amount of losses who you think is better or who has done more based on their schedule?
thav916
October 29, 2007
Yes, 100% on who I think deserves to play in the National Title game, which is something that I think 100% of the nation does not factor into their rankings, which is fine. There really isn’t a formula for my tiebreak with teams with the same amount of losses, although I think I lean more heavily toward what has been accomplished already as opposed to how good I feel the team is.
Raible
October 29, 2007
I actually think most of the voters do factor in who deserves to play for the title when they do their rankings. I think very few of the voters actually rank the teams based on who they believe is best, 2nd best, etc. A lot of people would argue that any undefeated BCS conference team deserves a shot at the title, but also think Florida would beat BC. The rankings more or less reflect the former point don’t they?
Did that make sense?
thegreatawakening
October 31, 2007
I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not a collfootball expert, but my rankings, which are more of a power ranking than a list of the deserving, look like this:
1. LSU
2. Oregon
3. Ohio St.
4. WVU
5. Florida
6. BC
Followed by an indistinguishable group that includes most of the SEC, Oklahoma, AZ St, and the other teams that keep winning.
thegreatawakening
October 31, 2007
Dean (and I know that Haver is probably not going to like this), but how in the hell do you have Florida in your Top 5? This is the same team that has lost to Auburn, LSU, and Georgia. That’s 3 freaking losses. While I think that the Gators have as much talent as anyone in the country, I don’t see how they can be considered a Top 5 team at this point.
Raible
October 31, 2007
Ya I’m fine with Raible Rankings because A. They’re your rankings and B. You’re certainly beyond consistent. I do agree with Dean and disagree with Raibs that people don’t vote for who they think should play in the title game. I think they definitely do. Usually your big conference undefeated teams are gonna be ahead of your big conference one loss teams but I think the problem lies elsewhere or when there are a bunch of teams with the same record. I think people vote based on who they think is best but I think people speak as if in fact. For example last year, “Ohio State is DEFINITELY the best team and Michigan is DEFINITELY the second best team.” That’s the worst part, in my opinion, is people try to act like there’s some type of definitive answer and without playing, you can only guess. The main reason college football is flawed is because there are just so many teams and so many different varieties of schedules out there.
I’m certainly not mad that Raibs questions Dean’s ranking of Florida. I definitely wouldn’t put them there. Is it possible to think, “Tebow was banged up last game, there defense didn’t play well and they missed Major Wright; they played LSU incredibly tough, lost against Auburn in a game where Auburn played great and I just simply think that if Florida is healthy and brings their “A” game you favor them over any team in the country but 4 other teams” YES. I’m not saying you gotta agree, but I’d guess Dean’s thoughts are along those lines and if he continues to think Florida is the 5th best team that is his personal belief. He seemed to allude to it in his previous post that he thought Florida would beat BC. And he also LOVES the SEC. I am kinda interested in hearing if I’ve nailed his thinking or am off, though.
thav916
November 1, 2007
My thinking was basically: If you put a gun on me and make me bet my kneecap on Florida-BC, I pick Florida and consider calling my bookie for a little extra action. (Before I go any further, I’m not saying it was a homerun or anything. but still…)
There are certain realities that make a team deserving of respect and opportunity while at the same time failing to convince me that they are a fantastic team. For example, BC defeated Virginia Tech- this is a fact. However, as an observer, I can see that they would have a loss with any semblance of even luck down the stretch. Meanwhile, Florida has 3 losses. But I feel like they’ve been on the wrong end of several of the coin flip games that are commonplace in the SEC. The only common-opponents-once removed that I can think of is LSU-VTech. LSU smashed Tech, and needed 4th down magic to take down Florida in the same stadium. That same VTech team outplayed BC for most of their matchup, albeit in a brutal venue for visitors.
None of that nonsense proves anything, except that college football is a wild game. I based my rankings on the premise that I can identify the best teams by watching them, rather than the premise that winning or losing proves it for me. I think Florida is a lot closer to a one loss team than a 4 loss team, and I think they have a good chance to be undefeated in the ACC. I think BC is a tough team with a great QB that deserves to a chance to play for the title should they stay unbeaten. But I also think they could easily be a 1 or 2 loss top ten cliffhanger who would be unmentioned in a BCS discussion, particularly had they faced Auburn, Georgia, LSU, Kentucky, etc.
With that all in mind, I believe, based on my somewhat limited knowledge of the top teams, that LSU would likely beat Oregon, who would likely beat Ohio State, etc. eventually getting to Florida, who I think will likely beat BC by double digits if they happen to meet in a bowl game this season.
Thoughts?
thegreatawakening
November 1, 2007
I’m perfectly fine with your thinking Dean. It’s what I figured. It’s basically like ranking San Diego ahead of Green Bay on NFL power rankings. Just like any discussion, people are going to be basing their opinions based on completely different things. The thing I like about your thoughts is you aren’t acting like it’s fact. You’re kinda just saying that’s what you believe would happen in those situations, you think Florida would beat Boston College, take it for what you want. I would disagree if you thought it was a fact and I’d also disagree with someone that thought it was a fact that BC was better than Florida. You are simply ranking teams based on who you think are the best. Raible is ranking based on who he thinks should be playing for national title. I hate to speak for others but I’m gonna guess if Dean had to rank who should play for National Title his rankings would be different and likewise if Raible had to rank who he thought were actually the best.
thav916
November 1, 2007
For the record, both teams 100% healthy I’d pick Florida over BC on a neutral field. I’d put BC in the national title game over Florida hands down. And it’s impossible to say who’s actually “better” until they played on the field (and possibly not even until a 3 game series).
thav916
November 1, 2007
Definitely. If I had to send in an AP poll (where it is understood that you basically rank the bodies of work rather than the teams themselves) I would probably have Ohio State and BC 1-2 until they lose. But in a power ranking format (which is how I prefaced my original rankings on here) I’m going with who I believe are most likely to beat the other teams right now.
One thing that this brings to mind is how easy it is for the best team by the end of the year to not go undefeated, particualarly in college with high player (and these day coach and systym) turnover. When the Steelers lose I’m pissed, but I know that we can learn from it, and the goal of the regular season is to reach the playoffs and be prepared to make a run. In college good young teams just can’t slip up. Florida has a first year starter at QB and BC has a seasoned vet. Throw in the conference gap and you’re looking at teams in incomparable circumstances. (I like BC by the way for what it’s worth.)
BC deserves to play for the title, Florida deserves to play in a mid-level bowl, but Florida could crush BC right after the season and surprise no one (ok some people maybe). Not many sports where that’s possible.
thegreatawakening
November 1, 2007
Thanks for clarifying your point, Dean. So many times, all it takes is a simple clarification for people to better understand another perspective. With that being said, I agree that Florida would probably beat BC 9 times out of 10. Similarly, it is BC that deserves to play in the BCS more than Florida at this point.
I know that Dean is obsessed with the SEC, but rightfully so, no? Week in and week out, you have to bring it in the best conference in college football (the same holds true, in my estimation, for the Big East and the ACC in college basketball). I look forward to the SEC game of the week, and not coincidentally VERNE on CBS, possibly more than any other game that is played each week.
I’m just thinking about this on the fly, but I am going to list the 5 teams that, as a Pitt fan, I would least want to play:
1. West Virginia – I know that they lost to USF and have struggled at times this season, but there’s no team in the country that I would rather not play than WVU.
2. LSU – Hard to put then any lower than here, mainly for the fact that they have proven their worth probably more than any other team.
3. Oregon – I have been impressed with that offense since they waxed Michigan in Week 2.
4. Ohio State – They’re undefeated for a reason.
5. Michigan – They’re nowhere near as bad as their 1st 2 games indicated.
Just below this list would be a group headed by Florida and would include Oklahoma and USC.
One final point to make regarding this conversation: I have long been a proponent that there is such a thing as being a really talented team and being a really good team. Talent does not necessarily mean good. I look back at the 1998 Tennessee team as a great example of a good team that wasn’t necessarily as talented as others. This was the first year AFTER Peyton Manning left, yet it was the team that won the National Title (with Tee Martin at the helm). Tennessee was expected to have a slight fall off after their conference championship the previous season. They had lost QB Peyton Manning, WR Marcus Nash and LB Leonard Little to the NFL. Manning had been the first pick overall in the 1998 NFL Draft. They were also coming off of a difficult 42-17 loss to Nebraska in the Orange Bowl, and were in the midst of a 5 game losing streak to their rivals the Florida Gators. Instead of having a fall off though, they ended their campaign in Tempe, undefeated, becoming only the fourth school in modern college football history to complete a 13-0 season.
What I’m trying to say is that so much more than pure talent goes into how good a team really is. Winning ugly, team chemistry, solid coaching, etc. are just a few items that, while often hard to examine, are extremely important to a winning football team. This year’s Boston College squad, at least to this point, seems to fit in this boat.
Raible
November 1, 2007
College football needs a playoff for all of those reasons that have been mentioned. When people talk about power rankings they are ranking based on “What they think”. It’s impossible to know. It’s also kinda obvious that most people tend to think a lot of 1 loss teams (or even 2 loss teams) are better than BC, Kansas, Hawaii, etc. Now time certainly will tell. If a team is a pretender they will lose. If a team continues to win they are doing something right. Any BCS school has the chance to prove themselves throughout the year. Gonna be a great last couple of weeks and then it will be interesting to get some WCG Playoff Brackets going and debate them.
thav916
November 2, 2007
I’ll have more insight with my weekly post tomorrow, but it might be time to start talking about the Reesing kid from Kansas and Beanie Wells from OSU as potential Heisman candidates. Reesing tossed for 6 TDs in undefeated Kansas’ demolition of Nebraska, while Beanie ran for 100+ yards and 3 TD in the #1 Bucks’ win over Wisconsin.
Raible
November 3, 2007
MATT RYAN. YOU SUCK!!!!!!!! I love Geno Hayes!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tonight is why I never count out Darren McFadden in my Heisman talk. 34 carries, 335 yards, 1 td and 1-1 passing, 23 yards and a td. Wow. Incredible. Can’t not mention that teammate Felix Jones had 13 carries, 167 yards and 3 td’s too and is now is averaging 10 yards a carry this year.
I know Wells has mentioned Reesing in the past and I just commented that you keep expecting them to lose. Today they pounded a well-known Nebraska team and a 6 TD game is always big. At 5′10″ it’s amazing what Reesing does. I’m gonna take it one step further than just mentioning Reesing and say what a day for Big 12 QB’s in general (not even counting Zac Robinson or Graham Harrell). Chase Daniel went 26-44 421 5 TD’s and 1 int and Sam Bradford went 21-30 287 yards and 5 tds. All signs point to the winner of Kansas and Missouri facing Oklahoma in the Big 12 Championship and the winners/top performers in those games could find themselves high up in the Heisman rankings. As for Reesing specifically, I think TODAY he could be top 5 but I don’t think he or Kansas will be taken legitimately until after at least the Missouri game if not the Oklahoma game. Playing in the Big 12 and not facing Texas and Oklahoma in the regular season shouldn’t even count as the Big 12. But the Jayhawks are sweet (McAnderson and Sharp!!!!!). Almost comical that Kansas might jump WVU this week, but not saying they shouldn’t or that it even matters.
I have mentioned Chris Wells a few times when I’ve had extended rankings. They’ve kept winning, he’s kept playing well, I think he’s still outside of the top 5 but hovering. I think Todd Boeckman has to be the Buckeyes top candidate. Doesn’t always have the biggest stats but his numbers are always good and he’s had 2 TD’s in every game this year.
Now McFadden threw a slight wrench into my planned statement here but I don’t think it’s even arguable that Tim Tebow and Dennis Dixon are the two best players in college football. Not even talking Heisman here but I think there’s no doubt they are the 2 (or 3 with Dmac) best college football players.
Uconn and Cincy with BIG wins in the Big East this week. Nice for the conference but scary for WVU.
I hate Virginia squeaking out these wins for Cameron Saddler purposes. And UNC beating Maryland kinda hurt today as well.
Tough day for Pat White and Andre Woodson sitting out with all of these huge performances going on.
What a huge day for Chad Henne today. And great to see Mike Hart back in the lineup, obviously getting 100 yards. Really hoping they and OSU win next week to set up the showdown.
HEISMAN
1. Dennis Dixon-Another masterful performance at the helm. Oregon is playing as well as anyone and Dixon controls the game. First game this year without a running td but I think he’s fine with 4 throwing. Being huge on national tv is important and Dixon was the man today as he has been all season long. Gets the nod over Tebow due to team record.
2. Tim Tebow-What an animal! His responsibility on the Gators is unparalled. 5 total TD’s and a much needed easy win. In 5 out of 9 games this year Tebow has completed over 70% of his passes. He has more rushing td’s than McFadden, Slaton, Wells and a lot of other bigtimers. Threw an interception today and I’m dying to see film of it.
I think after these 2 the field gets muddy. Having to rank the next 10 or so is extremely dependant on which minute of the day I’m ranking. Offhand I’ve got about 9 guys in my head and am assuming I’m forgetting about at least one guy. I think the list in no order goes Todd Boeckman, Chris Wells, Mike Hart, Pat White, Todd Reesing, Chase Daniel, Sam Bradford, Darren McFadden and Andre Woodson.
For the hell of it I’ll round out my top 5.
3. Todd Boeckman-Part of this is projecting OSU to win their final two games and some other teams to go down. The guy is the model of consistency as I mentioned above. The leader of the number 1 team in the country. Coming into the day he was third in the nation in passer efficiency. Matt Ryan was 50th (Tebow obviously 1st).
4. Darren McFadden-I’m not sure which of that other group will emerge and I’m pretty sure McFadden has been emerging for the last 2 years. The game today puts him back on the map to say the least. I also feel that a guy with this much buzz and NFL potential doesn’t need as much production as some of the other guys. The key is next week at Tennessee. I think Arkansas beats Miss St at home and loses to LSU away. But the Tennessee game is the difference between 8-4 and 7-5.
5. Andre Woodson-He had a bad game last week and he was off this week. But I think we know what we’re gonna get from Woodson and like Arkansas, Kentucky needs to go 2-1 in their final 3 games. 28 TD’s to 7 Int’s in the SEC is massive.
Not like these guys have any idea but I feel like I’m motivating the guys I left off. I think a top 5 spot is Pat White’s for the taking with a few more games like he had last week. I also think any one of the Big 12 QB’s could be ahead of Woodson, but I think any one of them could fall substantially. For that reason, I’m keeping them off for another week until I see more. Mike Hart wants so badly to get back on the list and Chris Wells is begging to get on it. Hart has been betterh and more consistent but also lost 2 games and missed 2 games. They each need 100+ next week and then we’ll see who outplays who November 17.
Hey Matt Ryan, go hang out with Colt Brennan!!!!
thav916
November 4, 2007
Raible Rankings, Week 4:
1. Ohio State (10-0): A win is a win.
2. Kansas (9-0): Need to keep winning.
3. Hawaii (8-0): Still zero losses.
4. LSU (8-1): Probably the best team.
5. Oregon (8-1): HUGE win vs AZ State.
6. Oklahoma (8-1): Back over WVU.
7. West Virginia (7-1): Bye drops them.
8. Missouri (8-1): Chase Daniel is solid.
9. Boston College (8-1): Ouch!
10. Arizona State (8-1): Free fall coming?
Heisman Rankings through games played on November 3rd:
1. Dennis Dixon: No one is better right now.
2. Tim Tebow: Great stats, not enough wins.
3. Chris Wells: Best player on the best team.
4. Darren McFadden: HUGE game.
5. Todd Reesing: 6 TD passes!
Raible
November 4, 2007
-Anyone remember when the Big XII played defense? Their bowls will be interesting- it’s not 100% great offenses and 0% trash defenses or vice versa, but I wonder where the percentages really are. I think it’s a lot of both, but what the hell happened to this conference?
-Wow LSU and Oregon both playing at the same time yesterday- and I watched the Arkansas game instead. Ronnie and Carnell both went in the top 5, and they were unstoppable and I loved them. But Jones and McFadden are just abusive. McFadden looks like he’s lining up to blitz instead of run the ball, and Felix is as smooth as he is lightning quick. And the white shoes make it even sweeter.
-If I were an NFL team I’d do whatever I had to do to wind up with McFadden, Teebow, and another backfield weapon- Felix if possible. Then I’d design an offense for them and physically kill people.
thegreatawakening
November 4, 2007
Do you purposely spell Tebow wrong? Every time it’s “Teebow”. Cmon.
You realize asking for Tebow, McFadden and Jones that you’re basically asking to trade for the top pick this year and next year and acquire another first round pick whenever Jones enters the draft?
Cadillac and Brown always come to mind for me too, with McFadden and Jones. Bush and Lendale epitomized Thunder and Lightning. But those Auburn and Arkansas combinations are moreso just two outstanding running backs. I loved the analogy to McFadden looking like he’s lining up at linebacker.
Big 12 really does air it out.
Outside of being a bigger recruit, bigger name and better nfl prospect I don’t understand how Chris “Don’t call me Ghris” Wells is higher on the Heisman list than Todd Boeckman.
thav916
November 4, 2007
Down to 3 undefeated teams left I think the order of those is clearly Ohio State, Kansas and Hawaii. If Ohio State wins out I think they have to be in the BCS Title Game. If Kansas wins out I’m still unsure if it’s a slam dunk over a 1 loss LSU or 1 loss Oregon. I’d put them above all other one loss teams for sure, though. If Hawaii goes unbeaten I still say no way.
As for one loss teams, I’m not gonna say who the “best” is because I don’t think I can. I think the team that has been the most impressive and done the most is Oregon. They play in a tough conference, have been impressive against USC and Arizona St, lost a close game to a good opponent in Cal, and dominated a top non-conference foe in Michigan. I think Oklahoma and WVU have been the most impressive 1 loss teams, yes, more impressive than LSU, but LSU’s SEC schedule and domination of Virginia Tech equals the playing field if not takes them back above Oklahoma and WVU. Missouri is probably then next and well ahead of BC and Arizona State.
I love that Kansas and Missouri still have to square off and the winner will take on Oklahoma. All three of these teams have been criticized for lack of schedule this year and they’ll all get a chance to prove it on the field. This of course doesn’t factor in upsets which are always possible, but have to like one of these teams coming out on top as a pretty legitimate force.
As for two loss teams, I think Georgia and Michigan stand alone at the top off the top of my head. Georgia has kinda squeaked out a lot of their games but the best part about them is they have 3 tough games left and the chance to play LSU. Run the table and it’s huge. Lose 1 to 4 of them and they fall off the map. Similarly with Michigan, they’re on fire, huge comeback win against rival Michigan State and still have two games to show how good they really are against Wisconsin and Ohio State.
Seems like we’re getting close, and while we are, each team has 2 to 4 games left that will be absolutely enormous. Gonna be great.
thav916
November 5, 2007
I’ve got Wells ahead of Boeckman because, in my opinion, Wells is the better player. The Heisman Trophy is supposed to be awarded to college football’s best player. Thus, Wells is ranked higher.
Raible
November 5, 2007
Interesting
thav916
November 5, 2007
Is Tebow really looking like a top overall pick? (and actually I spelled it right, then remembered I mucked it before, and then added an e.) Not saying he’s not, I just hadn’t really thought of him that way. I never viewed him as Pat White either, and I thought he’d have a chance to be a good pro, but…. Is he pretty much a consensus early first round pick at this point. (and yea, that idea was just a Madden fantasy- but it was a great one.)
thegreatawakening
November 5, 2007
I’ve read one thing before that had Tebow as the top choice. It is kinda tough to project as you don’t see as many future drafts in NFL as you do for NBA so I guess I can’t really say. He’s 6′3, 235, benches 400 lbs, runs a decent 40, has a strong arm, smart, savvy, a good person, leads the nation in passing efficiency and has 14 rushing td’s. I’m not sure how he couldn’t be the top prospect whenever he enters the draft.
Was definitely a sweet fantasy.
thav916
November 6, 2007
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/bill_trocchi/11/07/conference.rankings/index.html
THE EXPERTS GUIDE TO TOP CONFERENCES
Wells
November 8, 2007
Somebody on the radio said today that when he voted for the AP, he never dropped a team down unless they were beaten, and he couldn’t understand how anyone could. Any thoughts on this? I personally think that when ranking a handful of teams who for the most part haven’t played each another or even a common opponent, you end up flipping a coin in a lot of spots. And when you have Miami at 4 and Nebraska at 5 just because you can’t have a tie, what’s wrong with flipping them if Nebraska kills #9 Oklahoma when Miami is off?
thegreatawakening
November 8, 2007
PAT WHITE IS THE BALLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thav916
November 9, 2007
I think the main thing with the rankings is consistency. I love all of the movement in the polls at the beginning of the season. Michigan being 0-1 at out of the polls, a top 10 team pounding another top 25 team and moving up a couple spots. Those scenarios and more I really like. It’s easier to compare teams after 1, 2 and 3 games. The thing I start to question a little bit is as the season goes on it seems like A LOT is based on the previous week. For instance it seems like if #5 has a bye and #6 dominates another top 25 team everyone is quick to put the #6 ahead. Meanwhile, the previous 5 weeks where #5 pounded good teams seems to be forgotten. Just being a WVU fan this year it’s been tough. I don’t know if there’s anything to it or not but it has seemed like we’ve been quick to fall when we’ve played a subpar game but when we beat a team like Miss St 38-13 or Rutgers 31-3 we haven’t jumped back over anyone. I don’t mind falling if we deserve it but we should jump right back up if we deserve it, too. Consistency is the key. I don’t really mind when it does happen or when it doesn’t. But someone that believes in it should always do it and someone that doesn’t should never.
thav916
November 9, 2007
Maybe we’ll get a few more comments for Dean’s topic but I’d also like to bring something up I’ve been thinking. I think college football should be like the pros and scrap the stopping of the clock after first downs and have a 2 minute warning. Last night’s game was 4 hours long. Alabama-LSU was over 4 hours long. These games are so incredibly long. Plus I feel like it’s so easy for a team to make a game winning drive at the end, too easy. Keep the clock running and install a 2 minute warning!
thav916
November 9, 2007
Kudos to ABC for making Kansas-Oklahoma St their main game last night. Musberger on the call always makes it sound important. They easily could have gone with the USC-Cal game as I’m sure they had planned originally. Getting to watch Kansas was great. That double stacked wr formation is so sweet. There’s gonna be some great Big 12 action coming up.
So much for the Todd Boeckman/Beanie Wells debate for Heisman. Boeckman was awful yesterday and I think illustrates my points that he was the leader and key of that team. No surprise that he plays poorly and they lose. Defense giving up 3rd down runs to Juice was pretty bad, too.
Boston College and South Florida are the perfect examples of why rankings don’t matter in midseason. People were crying that they were no good and now they’ve lost multiple games and are aptly ranked.
Zook loves crying
My dad said if WVU plays Oregon in a bowl game it’ll be the “Kordell Bowl”
It’s funny but if Colt Brennan had about 50 TD passes and 5 Int’s right now he could be everyone’s pick for Heisman. So glad he doesn’t.
HEISMAN
1. Denny Dixon-Until Oregon loses, Dixon plays poorly or someone from a 0 or 1 loss team outperforms him I don’t think I can move him from this spot.
2. Tim Tebow-Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. There, one wow for every td he had yesterday. The best player in college football………..HISTORY!! lol
3. Pat White-Had a big game statistically and a Heisman like moment. Won the game for WVU.
4. Big 12 QB-Todd Reesing, Chase Daniel, Sam Bradford-All great games yesterday. Huge for Reesing to be on national tv and do his thing. He is Doug Flutie. Can’t differentiate these 3 until they finish out the season. Just can’t.
5. Darren McFadden-Had 100 yards, but no TD and no win. He’s still Darren McFadden and gets pub just for that.
Possibly the biggest things to go on for the Heisman race this past week were the BC and OSU losses. Matt Ryan was still getting votes and you saw Boeckman creeping up on some lists. Those votes will now have to go elsewhere. Very big for guys like White and the Big 12 guys.
thav916
November 11, 2007
Raible Rankings, Week 5:
1. Kansas (10-0): Only major undefeated left.
2. Hawaii (9-0): My stubbornness gets the best of me.
3. LSU (9-1): The best overall team, in my opinion.
4. Oregon (8-1): Play Thursday night on ESPN.
5. Oklahoma (9-1): More impressive wins than WVU.
6. West Virginia (8-1): Survived UL scare.
7. Missouri (9-1): Only loss was to Oklahoma.
8. Ohio State (10-1): Can still win the Big Ten.
9. Arizona State (9-1): Good win at UCLA.
10. Boise State (9-1): Wow, not too many 1-loss teams.
Heisman Rankings through games played on November 10th:
1. Dennis Dixon: No reason to knock him from this perch.
2. Tim Tebow: He’s really good.
3. Pat White: WVU is THE sleeper team right now.
4. Tood Reesing: 300+ yards, 3 TD.
5. Darren McFadden: Who else to put here?
***I wish to point out that I actually think that Kansas deserves to be ranked #1 right now (I would be lying if I said that Hawaii deserved to be ranked #2, but I must stick with my consistency and put them there). The exciting thing about Kansas is that they still get to play Missouri and, perhaps, Oklahoma in the Big 12 Title Game. The point I’m making is that I think Kansas should earn their spot in the BCS Title Game if they run the table. As for Hawaii, I think that, should they run the table, they should at least deserve a spot in a BCS bowl game. Running the table for the Warriors would mean beating Nevada, Boise State, and Washington. In any case, I just really hope that Kansas doesn’t get screwed if they run the table.
Raible
November 12, 2007
First ever same Heisman list from Raibs and Hav? Wow!
I agree with those sediments about Kansas as well. The Jayhawks should play in the title game if they run the table. That’s the nice thing with just about every BCS team. Every team in a BCS conference has a chance to prove themselves by the end of the year. Maybe in the Big Ten it’s possible to not play 2 of the top teams and not have a conference championship but their aren’t too many other situations like that. Missouri being great helps Kansas. If Missouri was 6-4 and Texas was 8-1 it would look worse for Kansas. I wasn’t sure a few weeks ago due to not playing Texas and no non-conference games. Central Michigan, SE Louisiana, Toledo, and Florida International is probably the worst non conference schedule ever. But the fact that they’ve won every game so far, looked good doing so and will have to get through two top 10 teams to complete an undefeated season I think they’d deserve to be the top team. I know there’s the possibility of them getting screwed but just as a lot of people voted for them higher when they pounded Nebraska I think they’d move up and up with these last couple wins. I truly believe that the Kansas talk is premature and if they win out they’ll be fine. If they lose it doesn’t matter.
With that said, I’d like to see Kansas lose a game and the rest of the schedule go as accordingly (this is from non-wvu bias. From WVU bias, i hope every other team loses and we win). That could set up 6-8 one loss teams. It’d be fun to have all of those teams matched up in bowl games and basically have 3 or 4 “National Championship” games. I mean if LSU and Oregon play in the BCS Title game, imagine a 1 loss Oklahoma and WVU matched up. Kansas, Ohio State and Arizona State could have one losses as well. As Raibs alluded to with his #10 ranking of Boise State there aren’t as many one loss teams as I was thinking their were. And with the way this season has gone you can’t assume all of this would happen. I’d just love if it did for Playoff purposes.
As usual the midseason talk about rankings is only good for something to bitch about. Only 1 undefeated BCS team remains and only 7 one loss BCS teams remain. Every week is great. Weeks that you play Yetti in the semi-finals of a fantasy college football league and Tebow has 7 touchdowns are especially great.
thav916
November 12, 2007
After typing that post and thinking about it it became more evident than ever that things might actually work out ok. I always say to just wait to the end of the year and things usually play themselves out. Look what we have left. 8 BCS teams with 0 or 1 loss.
Kansas-0 losses. Plays Iowa St, Missouri and potentially Oklahoma
Missouri-1 loss. Plays @ Kansas State, @ Missouri and potentially Oklahoma
Oklahoma-1 loss. Plays @ Texas Tech, Oklahoma State and potentially Kansas/Missouri
West Virginia-1 loss. Plays @ Cincinnati, Connecticut, and Pittsburgh.
Ohio State-1 loss. Plays @ Michigan.
Oregon-1 loss. Plays @ Arizona, @ UCLA, and Oregon State.
Arizona State-1 loss. Plays USC and Arizona.
LSU-1 loss. Plays @ Ole Miss, Arkansas and potentially Georgia/Tennessee/Florida.
It’s not even possible for all of these teams to finish as is with the Big 12 teams matched up. All other teams have tough match-ups. Like I pointed out when they happened, teams like Virginia Tech and USC getting a 2nd loss when they did were huge to put them out of the picture. Ohio State has to be upset about their loss but how nice is their situation that they can pound Michigan and sit back and relax? Really is pointless to talk about the BCS being horrible or teams getting screwed until this all plays out.
thav916
November 12, 2007
Heisman Watch:
1. Dixon- IF they make the championship game, I feel like this HAS to be the guy.
2. Tebow- He is setting the bar pretty high and I’m not sure if team records will matter when it all boils down.
3. Pat White- The only game WVU lost this year, White didn’t even play an entire half. Last week he proved that he is the straw that stirs the drink.
4. Todd Reesing- Until KU loses he HAS to be ahead of Bradford and Daniel.
5. Darren McFadden- For a while Felix Jones was outplaying DMAC, but with 1400+ yards and 12 TD’s, I’d impressed.
6. Chase Daniel
7. Sam Bradford
8. Matt Forte
9. Jamaal Charles
10. Michael Crabtree
Wells
November 13, 2007
Ha, Wells, saying Reesing “HAS” to be ahead of Bradford and Daniel, that some kind of dig towards my list with me saying that you can’t differentiate between them?? My point is that they all play, Bradford, Daniel and Reesing cannot all win out. I think all of their stats are comparable enough that when they square off head to head we could see some separation, therefore it’s pointless to try to put a ranking to the three of them as of today. In my rankings I’m assuming every team will win their games. The Big 12 guys cannot all win. Sure, Reesing would be ahead if the season ended today. But it doesn’t.
thav916
November 14, 2007
Interesting take on Forte being ahead of Crabtree. Both have been awesome all year long but I woulda thought Crabtree has dominated his position more than Forte has and done so at a Big 12 school. Was just surprised to see Forte ahead in the rankings. Was it due to T Tech’s system? Running Back as opposed to Wide Receiver and wanting to give Graham Harrell some of the credit? T Tech has also played a tougher schedule.
I’d say Felix Jones is still outplaying Darren McFadden. The thing is, it’s not really a knock on DMac as much as it is realizing and giving credit to the season Jones is having. Has less than half the carries than McFadden and only one less touchdown. Averaging 9.05 YPC as opposed to DMac’s 5.86. Jones is 29th in the nation in rushing yards but yet not in the top 100 in carries. Incredible. I obviously also have DMac higher on my Heisman list. I think it’s a combination of production, name value, versatility and his 300+ yard performance. I’m also sure you could argue some of Jones’ success is due to teams being incredibly scared of McFadden. What a combo.
thav916
November 14, 2007
Haver, you are my boy no doubt, but why always no love for rankings as of today. This is the 2nd time in a week that you have mentioned that rankings as of today are pointless (the Heisman rankings, and ranking where Ben fits in the top NFL QBs). While rankings can certainly change, and while I think we can all agree that it’s easier just to group a bunch of guys together and see how it plays out, part of the fun, at least for me, is figuring out where everyone or everything ranks as of now and how it will all play out in the end.
T-Hav: That shit is wack, dog.
Raible
November 14, 2007
I wrote that there’s no way to differentiate between the three and then Wells wrote in caps that Reesing had to be ahead. I took offense and commented explaining why I didn’t think I personally wanted to rank the three of them. I suppose “if’s” go into everything. I guess I can explain Big Ben another time. Don’t really think it’s wack, no big deal.
thav916
November 14, 2007
No, it’s no big deal at all. Wack is just a sweet word.
Raible
November 14, 2007
What Teams have been the most pleasant surprises for you this year?
The obvious choice is Kansas, who has worked their way from no-name to national title contender. I think it’s safe to say that Virginia has been a rather surprise in the ACC, while UConn has simply stormed to the top of the Big East. You also have to admire the impressive jobs done by Arizona State and Oregon.
Which Coaches have done the best/worst jobs?
Best –
Mark Mangino, Kansas
Randy Edsall, UConn
Lloyd Carr, Michigan
Les Miles, LSU
Dennis Erickson, Arizona State
Mike Bellotti, Oregon
Carr has done a nice job, in my opinion, of rounding up the troops after Michigan’s 0-2 start. He can culminate his turnaround year with a big win over Ohio State on Saturday.
Worst –
Bill Callahan, Nebraska
Dennis Franchione, Texas A&M
Steve Kragthorpe, Louisville
Charlie Weis, Notre Dame
Gary Patterson, TCU
Pete Carroll/Jeff Tedford, USC/Cal
For Carroll, it’s almost not even fair that he is listed here when his team has 8 wins; he has just set the bar so high.
Raible
November 15, 2007
Wow, really sad what happened to Dixon, but it really opens the door for the Big 12. If one of those teams can win out, it will be in the driver’s seat to play LSU. However, teams have buckled under the pressure before still leaving chances for WVU and OSU and very outside chances for teams like A St.
Before this week I said to people that WVU had to have 3 thing happen:
1) Win Out
2/3) Oregon and LSU have to lose
Well 2/3 don’t matter if the Mtneers can’t win out and it starts tonight against a very difficult Cincy team on the road.
The reason I said this was pretty obvious. It’s alot easier to ask for 2 teams to lose than 3 and right now the Big 12 more than anyone has a stranglehold on the title game.
The next three weeks should be very exciting and unless someone really steps up I think the Heisman is now Tebow’s. Damn.
Wells
November 17, 2007
Is the Big XII champ definitely looking like a lock to play for the title game? Looking at the rankings there are 3 XII teams with 1 or 0 losses. Do you guys think that it is a great conference, or so shitty that 3 decent teams are now overrated based on an easy road? I’m sure it’s somewhere in between. It’s tough to analyze since the vast majority of the games are played in-conference and you can take whatever you want from those matchups. Is one conference deep and good, or thin and mediocre? Does another have 3 B- teams and 9 F teams, or 3 A teams and 9 C+s?
Anyway, does the Big XII have the title game locked up? How do you think those three teams stack up against the 1,2,and 3 loss teams from some of the other BCS conferences?
thegreatawakening
November 17, 2007
Haver and I took the liberty of figuring out this whole BCS thing last night. Here is what we decided (of course, it was pretty much all decided after we had about 10 drinks):
BCS Title Game: LSU vs WVU
Oklahoma vs Boise State
Michigan vs USC
Virginia Tech vs Georgia
Kansas vs Ohio State
How amazing would that bowl lineup be?!?!
Raible
November 17, 2007
Wow, the Heisman really is Tim Tebow’s now, eh?
Raible
November 17, 2007
Todd Reesing says, “Not so fast my friend.” 17-18 with 4 TD’s as I post this.
Tebow is having the best season of all-time, though.
thav916
November 17, 2007
Those BCS picks were a little more Raible’s than mine (you should see how pumped he is for an Oklahoma-Boise rematch) but nonetheless were sweet to come up with. Regarding conferences, I think it’s tough in general to evaluate them. When an SEC team upsets another team it’s because “they are so deep.” When a Big East team upsets another team it’s because “the top teams are so weak.” Each conference really only has a few games a year to prove themselves. Look at the Pac 10 this year. They got soooooooooooooooooooooooo much pub because Cal beat Tennessee and Oregon beat Michigan at the beginning of the season. They were huge wins in big matchups but really went a long way. As for the Big 12 I think as of now I give it credit as being a very good conference.
First of all, those top 3 teams have been nothing but impressive. Look at the margins of victory for each and the types of offensive numbers they are putting up. Unreal.
Secondly, outside of the top 3 teams you have some other talented teams. Texas isn’t even in the top 3, Texas Tech can fill it up each and every week, and Oklahoma State is coached by a man that is 40. Texas A&M and Nebraska have been disappointments but if other teams have been surprises then there have to be teams that are also not as good as you’d expect.
Third, they’ve done some needed things in the limited non-conference schedule. Texas A&M lost to Miami but Oklahoma pounded Miami. Missouri beat Illinois and Ole Miss. Texas beat TCU. Nebraska lost to USC but beat Wake Forest. Nothing really stands out as amazing but I’d say they did the things they needed to do.
Another thing, is outside of Oklahoma’s bad loss to Colorado, I think the conference looks strong because most teams have also taken care of business within the conference. I think a conference is helped by having one or two horrible teams that are guaranteed wins for everyone else. Baylor has provided that.
As with every conference we really won’t know until bowl season. Should be interesting to see how these offenses stack up against other conferences defenses. Much can change after bowl season but right now I’d say the Big 12 is the second best conference to the SEC.
thav916
November 17, 2007
Anyone else feel that Oregon-Arizona game was eerily similar to WVU-South Florida.
-Electric night crowd on a weekday for the underdog
-Star QB goes down with an injury
-A few huge plays made by the winning teams (USF and Zona each had pick 6’s and USF had the long broken play for TD, Zona had punt return TD)
-Looked like winning team really outplayed losing team but in reality the losing team had twice as many total yards
Just very similar to me. Very disappointing about Dixon. Seems like it’s coming out that he injured himself two weeks ago. Will be interesting to see if the coach gets in any trouble for letting him continue to play.
thav916
November 17, 2007
Beanie Wells…WAY better than Boeckman!!!
Raible
November 17, 2007
Yes, now he is.
thav916
November 18, 2007
HEISMAN RHYMES WITH TEBOW. After last week, it appears as if people are basing their votes on that current moment and not trying to predict what happens. Probably a safer thing to do with things like a Dennis Dixon injury always possible. For that reason, I’ll vote based on the season being finished today, as that’s what everyone else seems to do….
1. Todd Reesing-I always had him lower because I’m expecting them to lose and figure if they win I’ll move him up. Others say until he loses he’s above the Big 12 guys. Well then I ask, until he loses why is anyone above him? If the season ends today, he’s an undefeated QB with amazing stats and leadership on a Big 12 team.
2. Tim Tebow-Arguably having the best season of all-time. Tebow will just patiently wait at #2 and wait for Kansas to lose. Tebow could be helped by NOT having to play in the SEC championship game as it’d be one more opportunity for a loss and subpar performance against LSU. Florida will be on national tv against Florida St and a win will finish out the Gators at 9-3, definitely good enough to win the Heisman.
3. Chase Daniel-The guy can fill it up. Has more impressive stats than White and both on one loss teams. After next week could be invited to New York or totally out of the top 5. But as of right now, he’s my #3.
4. Pat White-Another win, another huge running game, another couple of fumbles. I think the fumbles and lack of elite statistics put White below my top 3 but his heroic acts and leadership keep him in my top 5. I’m thinkin if WVU continues to win he’ll end up higher than Reesing or Daniel, but if season ends today, he’s behind them both.
5. Dennis Dixon-What an effect his injury has on the Ducks. Such a shame he’s out for the season. It looked like he was on his way to another huge game. As of today, has only missed half a game and he stays 5th.
6. Darren McFadden-Just when you see 28 carries for 88 yards and you’re ready to knock him you see he had a 57 yard TD catch and 24 yard TD pass. Those are the types of stats that at the end of the year are huge for his overall production. He’ll be in the spotlight this Friday against LSU.
Next in no order………
Sam Bradford-Unfortunate to see his injury knock him out of action, especially on national tv and a real good chance to see this redshirt freshman leading the nation in passing efficiency. Might not be a more unheralded player in the nation. Is anyone else dying to see his parents?
Graham Harrell/Michael Crabtree-Tough to give one credit and not the other. HUGE legitimate win last night and also have pounded Texas A&M this year. 14 Ints for Harrell is kinda a lot. Crabtree has done nothing but dominate. Unbelievable combo.
Matt Forte/Kevin Smith-Wells had Forte high in his list and never answered my questions. I personally can’t mention Forte without mentioning Smith and actually think Smith has been more impressive if you look at his non-conference opponents and game log. Should also be noted that Tulane is like 2-7 and Central Florida is 8-3.
Beanie Wells-Clearly the best player on the Buckeyes as of November 18th, but I stand by thinking Boeckman was their best player as of November 5th. Speaking of beasts on the Buckeyes, how badass is Vern Gholston?!?!?!?!
Rudy Carpenter-One loss team. 11th in nation in passing efficiency. He’d get a spot in my top 10 if the season ended today. Huge game against Southern Cal.
Knowshon Moreno-He seems like he’s been the key to Georgia’s unbelievable stretch. He is Cadillac Williams reincarnated. He’s also Pat Russ’s boy.
A lot of other great individual seasons going on and some others will be on the final top 10, but not worth mentioning for the Heisman as of right now. I guess the Big Ten guys are done. Juice and/or Rashard could find themselves in the final top 10. I think Hart is out after his injuries and yesterday’s performance. I think there’s a lot of guys between 5 and 20 right now and a win and strong performance can get you into the top 10. For non Big Ten guys we’ll see what happens in the final week or two.
thav916
November 18, 2007
Raible Rankings, Week 6:
1. Kansas (11-0): Sat. vs Mizzou, 8:00, ABC
2. Hawaii (10-0): Fri. vs Boise, 9:00, ESPN2
3. LSU (10-1): Fri. vs Arkansas, 2:30, CBS
4. WVU (9-1): Sat. vs UConn, 3:30, ABC
5. Ohio State (11-1): Season completed
6. Missouri (10-1): Sat. at Kansas, 8:00, ABC
7. Arizona State (9-1): Thu. vs USC, 8:00, ESPN
8. Boise St. (10-1): Fri. at Hawaii, 9:00, ESPN2
9. USC (8-2): Thu. at Arizona State, 8:00, ESPN
10. Oklahoma (9-2): Sat. vs OK St., 3:30, ABC
Heisman Rankings through games played on November 17th:
1. Tim Tebow: He’s the best player.
2. Todd Reesing: He’s the MVP.
3. Pat White: He’s the most electrifying.
4. Chase Daniel: He’s the most underrated.
5. Dennis Dixon: He’s the most unlucky.
***I predict, as of today, that it’s going to be LSU and West Virginia in the BCS Title Game. I see Oklahoma winning this week to clinch a spot in the Big 12 Title Game, then defeating either Kansas or Missouri for the Big 12 Championship. I don’t see LSU or WVU losing again.
Raible
November 18, 2007
By the way, I can’t wait for the Hawaii-Boise State game on Friday!!!
Raible
November 18, 2007
FOR THOSE WHO CARE: Saddler and Hale canceled their visit to Michigan, and have narrowed their choices down to Virginia and WVU (+Pitt for Saddler, +Ohio State for Hale). Hale said he may not even visit OSU. Also, I bumbed into an old teacher at the bar. He said they are leaning towards WVU right now because “it’s a black school.” No, I’m not kidding.
REGARDING THE HEISMAN: Well, I had a nice piece of rambling garbage typed out explaining why I liked Tebow and McFadden for the Heisman, but in fairness I’d rather just create a new award that is judged based on my own personal preferences. While “most outstanding” can be interpreted in a lot of different ways, the Heisman has turned into an MVP award. This is perfectly fine and reasonable, but I’m going to judge my award based on the level to which a player is a man amongst boys. For example, Larry Fitzgerald would have won it easily over Jason White. I’m going to weigh team success as more of a bonus than a must, and statistical production will need to be tied to some sort of physical domination to be viewed favorably. Without further ado, here are my preliminary thoughts regarding the first annual Multi-Faceted Collegiate Animal Award.
This year the two candidates that stand out for me are Tebow and McFadden. I realize that McFadden’s stats aren’t eye-popping, but I feel like he’s taken care of the dirty inside work with a big bullseye on his back all year. He has still produced and opened up lanes for Felix Jones (another personal favorite). The receiving and passing accomplishments mean a lot to me as well- I love players who can do it all at this level. McFadden strikes fear into the souls of his opponents. Tebow also fits this category. His stats speak for themselves, but while all the top QBs this year are benfitting from an offensive system, Tebow could have been a Heisman frontrunner if he played for Iowa or Ole Miss. Much like McFadden, I’d be comfortable with Tebow playing linebacker or covering kicks.
For now Tebow is the frontrunner due to his staggerring statistics, most of which have been compiled in a punishing fashion. Any other nominees? How about for the first annual Multi-Faceted Collegiate Animal All-Manifest Team?
THE BIG XII ISSUE: I more or less agree with the thav post (I wish they were numbered). There’s no question that a 35-34 upset is automatically bad football in the crummy Big East and an electric shootout in the loaded SEC, which is joke. While the Big XII has done an adequate job in non-conference play, the thing that I keep coming back to, and which was pointed out, is how much of an advantage it is to have a soft conference “lower class” that never rises to the occassion and scores an upset. It’s not fair to assume the worst about Kansas and Missouri, and I’m looking forward to getting some answers come bowl season. While an Oklahoma-Boise rematch would be great, I’m also hoping that one of the big 3 gets Florida or Georgia since I guess Ohio State is going to the Rose.
thegreatawakening
November 19, 2007
“For now Tebow is the frontrunner due to his staggerring statistics, most of which have been compiled in a punishing fashion. Any other nominees? How about for the first annual Multi-Faceted Collegiate Animal All-Manifest Team?”
That’s great. I’m always a fan of physical freaks. I was tryin to come up with a team.
QB Tebow
RB McFadden
FB Owen Schmitt-They show his speed and power numbers almost every game and they really are ridiculous. He punishes people but also can catch the ball in addition to run and block.
3rd Back Jonathan Stewart-This dude might have the strongest legs ever. The way he keeps his balance and keeps going, takes a hit and keeps going. He almost always seems to get more yards than you think he’s going to get and it’s mainly due to his incredible strength. Oh, and he runs a 4.4.
WR-Michael Crabtree-I think around 6′3 220. He catches everything. Takes a hit and keeps going. You know it’s comin to him and you still can’t stop him.
WR-James Hardy-6′7 215 but not just big. Ultra productive. You just can’t match up with him.
After those guys I was kinda fishing. For TE Martellus Bennett came to mind for me, as he’s huge and athletic. Former hooper so you know the athleticism.
For o-lineman i found myself looking up lists and then picking the biggest guys. Probably makes more sense to skip o-line for now.
On defense a couple guys stood out. Vernon Gholston. All you had to see was his one sack on Chad Henne this weekend where he didnt tackle him, he just pushed him over. That was great. He’s huge, he’s fast, he’s unstoppable.
Some LB’s like James Laurinaitis and Dan Connor are just animals, especially fitting in Laurinaitis’s case. I’m kinda in a hurry here so I’m finishing this up quickly.
In the secondary I think South Florida’s Mike Jenkins lays the wood as well as anyone I’ve seen this year. Tough and physical, this guy’s a bigtime player. At safety it’s tough to compete with Taylor Mays, USC. He’s bigger than most linebackers these days at 6′4 230 but yet fast enough to be one of the top safeties in the nation.
I think it’d also be fun to come up with an all-speed team. The key would be coming up with a much sweeter name for it and I’ll leave that to Dean. But it’d include guys like Pat White at QB, maybe CJ Spiller or something at RB with Trinton Holliday as the 3rd RB. DeSean Jackson comes to mind at WR but his yards per catch were down this year.
thav916
November 21, 2007
HEISMAN
1. Tim Tebow-The best player in college football. Has the most responsibility. The most valuable. No QB that has ever won the Heisman has as many TD’s as Tebow this season. He’s so good that when he has a game like yesterday (350+ total yards and 5 TD’s) it’s “ho-hum” and doesn’t even get attention. Contrary to McFadden, who hasn’t had as many big games so when he blows up it’s a big deal. Tebow has been the best player all season long. 3rd in nation in TD runs and 2nd in passing efficiency.
2. Darren McFadden-Doing it on the big stage was huge for DMac. I always think of him having several subpar games this year but when I look at his game log he’s really only had 1 bad game; against Auburn, 17-43 in a 9-7 loss. He’s had two other games under 100 yards rushing but had 4 TD’s in one and had a throwing and receiving TD in the other. McFadden has a little bit of everything you look for from the Heisman. The name, the pedigree, the monsterous games, the big stage, the multiple stats.
3. Pat White-3rd and 15? Let me just drop back to pass and then run for not only the first down, but score the touchdown. White’s speed at QB, decision making, poise, leadership, etc. I feel like I talk about them every week but I feel like I have to. Needs one more big game against Pitt to accumulate some more stats. It was also be a game where he’s in the spotlight as the top team in the country. 10th in passing efficiency, completing 69% of his passes and a 12/4 TD/Int ratio is huge for this running quarterback.
4. Chase Daniel-Another guy that is a tremendous leader. Showed what he was all about last night. Has caught stride in his past three games with 10 td’s 0 int’s and completing about 77% of his passes. Conquered Todd Reesing last night, Daniel must get revenge on Sam Bradford next week.
5. Denny Dixon-I’d still like to see Dixon come in 5th and get invited to New York. Will end up missing 2 full games in addition to the Arizona game. That’s really no different than a guy like Colt Brennan. I think we’ve all seen just how important Dixon was to the Ducks.
Best of Rest
Colt Brennan-I’m ok with Brennan being somewhere between 6 and 10. I always think it’s funny, that in a year where the Heisman was so up for grabs if Brennan was healthy with 50 TD’s he could have actually won it. Thank goodness those haven’t happened. Because he has been injured in some games and the backup has put up great stats, and has 14 Int’s I’m also fine with him being dead last.
Mike Crabtree-By far the best receiver in the land.
Todd Reesing-Really took a hit yesterday but I think showed a lot and helped himself out a lot with a strong 4th quarter.
Sam Bradford-Still leading the nation in passing efficiency, lost last week without Bradford in the lineup. Will be on the big stage vs Chase Daniel next week.
Beanie Wells-1400 yards, 14 TD’s, possibly playing for the national championship
Matt Ryan-Similar to Brennan, now that the talk for the actual top spot has died down, I’m fine with him being in the next tier. A win and big performance next week will put him in that group. I still think he throws too many interceptions (16 opposed to 28 TDs), but BC is 10-2 and he’s had some bigtime throws this year for wins.
Andre Woodson-3rd in the country in TD passes, only behind Graham Harrell and the dude from Tulsa. Needed that win yesterday, though. Which leads me to…..
Erik Ainge-No one likes to think Tennessee is any good and no one like to think Ainge is any good and I’m certainly included in those both. But they continue to win and Ainge has 27 TD’s to 8 Int’s. Another thing about Ainge is in their losses he has played well. Playing LSU will be huge for Ainge and the Volunteers.
Kevin Smith-219 more yards yesterday and another win. Central Florida finished 9-3 and Smith himself finished with 2164 yards and 25 TD’s.
Probably a few others I could mention…JDB, Rashard, Knowshon, Mauk, Grothe, Rice, J Charles among others but I’ve already already mentioned more than enough.
thav916
November 25, 2007
A few quick hits
With all of that said, I fully expect McFadden to win the Heisman. People just want him to win it too badly and don’t want Tebow to win it. I think anyone that says, “Look at them, McFadden is the best player in college football.” They’re either saying he looks the best, should be the best, is an upperclassmen, will be the number 1 pick, was the preseason pick or something to that extent. If every player in the country was a senior I don’t see any way Tebow wouldn’t win it.
I think those top 4 are a definite top 4 right now, although interested in seeing/hearing if anyone thinks differently. It’s tough not to put White and Daniel right next to each other, whether it’s 1-2, 2-3, or 3-4 in either order. White and Daniel each have a game left whereas Tebow and McFadden are done. Will be huge for them.
The atmosphere at the Hawaii-Boise game was awesome. I hate on Brennan so much that I often forget how much I enjoy watching Hawaii and all the Samoans. If I’m a team that makes the BCS I would not want to be matched up with Hawaii.
It’s a shame that the SEC Champ game won’t be LSU-Georgia. Not even because I think Georgia is better than Tennessee, as the Volunteers wiped the floor with the Bulldogs earlier this year. But more so just because Georgia and LSU are 2 of the 4 best teams in the SEC and they didn’t play this year.
A Zook vs Florida bowl game would be big.
I don’t know if anyone was still listening but I pretty much agreed with every word that announcer David Norrie said about a playoff system in college football.
Gary Danielson’s announcing of the LSU-Arkansas game was one of the best games I’ve ever heard called. NOBODY predicts what’s gonna happen better than Danielson. Far too often an announcer will say AFTER THE PLAY, “We knew they were gonna try that this week.” Well if you knew, why didn’t you say it beforehand. Over and over throughout the game and throughout the year, Danielson has seen talked about something that was going to happen BEFORE THE PLAY and then it happened. Outstanding (and he’s with Verne!).
thav916
November 25, 2007
Raible Rankings, Week 7:
1. Hawaii (11-0): There’s only 1 unbeaten!
2. WVU (10-1): They’re gonna destroy Pitt.
3. Ohio St. (11-1): Playing the waiting game.
4. Mizzou (11-1): I see them losing to OK.
5. Kansas (11-1): Still should be BCS bound.
6. LSU (10-2): Both losses in OT.
7. USC (9-2): Should wrap up the Pac-10.
8. Oklahoma (10-2): Bradford is the man.
9. Georgia (10-2): BCS for the Bulldogs?
10. BC (10-2): I see them losing to VT.
Heisman Rankings through games played on November 24th:
1. Tim Tebow: He’s simply the best.
2. Darren McFadden: He might have it won.
3. Pat White: Big-play machine.
4. Chase Daniel: Great performance!
5. Dennis Dixon: Think the Ducks miss him?
***I predict, as of today, that it’s going to be WVU and Ohio State in the BCS Title Game, which I am completely fine with. I see Oklahoma beating Missouri again on Saturday in the Big 12 Title Game. If Missouri were to win, I think they’ll play for the title…but I still think that Ohio State should get the nod over both of them. How about some love for the WAC and the big Hawaii win over Boise State? A great game indeed!
Raible
November 25, 2007
Got this in an email about deserving to play for a nat’l championship- don’t know who wrote it, but it’s pretty sweet….
—————————————————————————————
Argument #1- “Your schedule is a joke!”
Response- Apparently the Sagarin ratings don’t agree.
See, the BCS takes strength of schedule into account via the Sagarin Ratings, which make up a percentage of the “computer” vote that is weighed along with the human polls.
WVU’s present strength of schedule in those ratings is 35th. Not particularly low or high, but better than other BCS Championship game hopefuls like Ohio State (56), Kansas (90), Oklahoma (67), and Virginia Tech (45), and not significantly statistically different from other teams like Missouri (34), USC (33), Georgia (22), or LSU (26). The only team in the Top 10 of the BCS with significantly better strength of schedule is Florida (5), who also has three losses on their resume.
So when the champion of the SEC is either going to have the 26th or 25th hardest schedule (LSU and Tennessee, respectively), and the likely champion of the Pac-10 has the 33rd hardest schedule, exactly how hard does WVU’s schedule need to be?
Forget what a fan’s biased eyes see as far as strength of schedule. I’ll take the facts. And I’ll be right.
Argument #2- “You didn’t beat anyone! _________ is more deserving!”
This is the point at which the traditional powers of college football and present realities part ways. There are plenty of traditionalists who live in a world which South Florida, Cincinnati, Rutgers, and UConn are afterthoughts. Doormats. These same traditionalists view Notre Dame’s season this year as a hiccup, rather than a continuing trend of mediocrity.
Does it matter that WVU drilled Mississippi State, who beat Auburn and Kentucky this year? Does it matter that WVU has played 4 ranked teams this year and beaten three of them?
Not to these people. It just matters what the school’s name is, and whether that school was ranked when daddy was growing up.
Additionally, almost as important as the “who you beat” argument as far as deserving a chance to play for the title is the “who did you lose to” contingent. Of all the teams in the BCS Top 10, only Missouri (a road loss to Oklahoma) has a loss on their schedule that is as respectable as WVU’s loss to South Florida in October.
WVU lost to a team presently ranked 21st in the BCS. On the road. At night. In what that team considered “the biggest game in the history of the program.”
Contrast this these teams’ losses, in order of their BCS rank after Missouri and WVU:
1) Ohio State- Lost AT HOME as the #1 team, knowing a national championship was at stake, to an unranked Illinois team.
2) Georgia- Lost AT HOME to presently-unranked South Carolina, and lost at presently-ranked 14 Tennessee. Also failed to even win its conference.
3) Kansas- Respectable loss to now-#1 Missouri at a neutral site, but that 90th-ranked SOS isn’t going to help them. Plus they, too, will not win their conference.
4) Virginia Tech- Lost AT HOME to a Boston College team that couldn’t pass effectively because the game was played in a monsoon. Also got shellacked by LSU so completely that the Tigers are still finding Hokie feathers around the field.
5) LSU- Lost AT HOME to presently-unranked Arkansas, and lost at presently-unranked Kentucky. Yes, their two losses were both in triple overtime, but knowing that a national championship was at stake, they couldn’t figure out how to stop the spread option. (And the claim that WVU couldn’t score on LSU was rendered completely moot.)
6) USC- Lost AT HOME to doormat of NCAA D-I football Stanford, and lost at Oregon.
But honestly, anything after “lost AT HOME to Stanford” doesn’t even need to be listened to. Sorry, USC. You lost to Duke. No BCS Championship for you.
7) Oklahoma- Lost to presently-unranked Colorado and presently-unranked Texas Tech.
So exactly who are you going to promote from this group over Missouri and WVU, should both teams win out? While there were some impressive wins among them, there were also some pretty big slipups that neither the (Mizzou) Tigers nor the Mountaineers have.
Argument #3- “You don’t play a conference championship!”
The Big East, unlike other conferences with championship games, plays a schedule in which every team plays every other team during the course of the regular season.
Exactly WHY do we need a championship game? It’s already been settled on the field!
[Add the fact that the BCS does not allow for a conference championship unless a conference has 12 teams.]
Argument #4- “Missouri/WVU would be the most boring BCS Championship Game ever!”
Really? Two of the most dynamic offenses in college football- both in the Top 8 of scoring offense- with 3 pre-season Heisman candidates on the field (and 2 that will be going to New York City as finalists for the award), running two drastically different versions of the spread offense which one of the coaches happened to invent… won’t be fun to watch?
One team ranked 2nd in the nation in rushing yards per game, the other ranked 4th in passing yards per game… is a dull game?
Two of the most talented QB’s in college football, each imposing their will on the game in different, thrilling ways… won’t move the ratings needle?
Two schools that have never won a national championship, including one that is the winningest team in the history of NCAA D-I football never to have won a title… won’t draw a crowd?
Please. Exciting football is exciting football. And unless I missed a memo and fast-moving, high-scoring offenses suddenly became boring, I’d say that a Missouri/WVU title game would be a [heck] of a game to watch.
——————————————————————————————–
Wells
November 27, 2007
Wow, what an argument in favor of Mizzou and WVU, eh? Not that I think that anyone on this board is against such a matchup, but some good points nonetheless. Personally, I think that Ohio State is a better team than Missouri, but not only do I really not care either way, but Missouri’s loss is certainly more impressive than Ohio State’s.
Nice points, though, and a good read!
Raible
November 27, 2007
I’m a pretty big fan of the 2 coaching hires recently made.
Mike Sherman seems like a good fit for Texas A&M. Not only did Sherman have some success as coach of the Green Bay Packers, but he is an A&M guy, having served as O-Line coach on 2 different occasions. A&M needs to become relevant again; hopefully, Sherman is the dude to make it happen.
Ole Miss taking Houston Nutt from Arkansas is simply fantastic. Even though he “never one the big one” at Arkansas, Nutt has had some pretty good teams in Fayetteville, including last year’s New Year’s Day Bowl squad. There should be less pressure to be excellent at Ole Miss, where a bowl game of any kind is going to be celebrated. Solid choice.
It looks like Turner Gill might be the man at Nebraska, while the Lord only knows who schools like Georgia Tech and Washington State are looking at. I am sure that the Michigan hire will be what causes the most dominoes to fall; the college football world is probably at Go Blue’s mercy until they decide what they are going to do (Les Miles, Jim Harbuagh, etc.?).
Raible
November 27, 2007
I love the article I posted, and for more than just the fact that it basically said WVU-Mizzou deserve to be where they are, it opens the door for people to realize that with traditional powers there is more than meets the eye. I’m sick and tired of people saying that UCONN, Cincy and S Fla aren’t good teams and the Big East is a weak conference. You know, nobody complained when it was Miami or Va Tech dominating the Beast, eventhough the rest of the conference really wasn’t much to consider. But what’s the difference if Pitt or Syracuse are number 2-3 in the conference or if it’s Cincy, Uconn or S Fla. Give credit where credit is due. The worst part is that I feel like if the Title game is us and Mizzou its a lose-lose for both teams. Yet, if it’s OSU and one of us wins it’s like, ” Ok now I guess we can give more respect to these mid-level teams now.”
Just a ramblin Fan…
Wells
November 27, 2007
A Few Thoughts
-I think Ohio State is worse than Missouri and West Virginia, and I think the Big Ten is just a hollow big name. Ohio St. and Michigan are huge name teams and had impressive winning streaks last year, but I think it was telling that they were smashed by Florida and USC in the bowl games. It was assumed that they were both easily top five last year after cruising through the Big Ten, but in each team’s one and only non-conference test it was massacred. Imagine if that was Louisville and WVU- the Big East would have been “exposed” and would never have received credit again. I think it’s Ohio State that has a hollow conference championship this year, and I expect them to be beaten badly in their bowl.
-I’m not real happy about the proposed LSU-Hawaii matchup. LSU is still considered by plenty of people to be the best team in the country, and I’d like to see them face an interesting opponent.
-Georgia-VTech is really the only BCS bowl game that I’m looking forward to, and I’d still prefer to see a Georgia-Ohio St. rematch of the Garrison Hearst-Robert Smith bowl game from years ago.
-Too bad Dixon’s season is finished, because Oregon would have been a great test for pretty much every top ten team.
-Florida-Illinois would be a nice matchup with lots of playmakers and some extra drama, and I’m personally pumped for Arkansas-Clemson too. I love interconference southern football.
-I’d like to see Kentucky-Kansas in the battle of the basketball schools.
-I also hope we get some more north-south showdowns in the mold of last year’s PSU-Tenn and Wisc-Ark. If any of you know any southern football fans they take these kinf of game *really* seriously, and I love having geographical rooting interests.
-I love the TV stretch from Thanksgiving to the Super Bowl. The NFL playoff drive, the bowl season, a few good UFC events, and the Bond-athon.
thegreatawakening
November 27, 2007
I would be very interested in a LSU-Hawaii game. If Hawaii is supposed to be good, then let’s see them get it done against a school that is well respected by the nation. The only way for teams like Boise State and LSU to make any headway is to beat teams like Oklahoma and LSU. What did Utah get from beating a team like Pitt. Answer: Absolutely nothing, besides losing their coach of course.
Raible
November 28, 2007
That is a great email. I don’t know anyone saying that WVU-Missouri would be a boring game, but I thought the first 3 points were great. Would be nice for some “experts” to take a look at that. Until every team plays every team it’s tough to say who the exact two best teams are in the country. But I hate people saying that WVU and Missouri clearly aren’t and that USC and Georgia are playing the best right now. I woulda thought after the previous two national championships that people would realize you don’t always know who the best is. Don’t get me wrong, there are an awful lot of positives to the 8 team playoffs…it’s currently better to schedule 4 cupcakes and win than it is go 3-1 against top 25 teams comes to mind among others. But, I also think about how a playoff system would give USC a free pass for losing to Stanford or how a team could actually go 0-4 in conference play and then 8-0 in conference and have a chance to play for the title. Now maybe that’s just it, they’d get a “chance” and it would be up to them to win 3 straight but I guess the bottom line is that there just might not be a perfect system out there.
I thought that was funny that the BCS won’t even allow conferences with less than 12 to have a title game. I also think people fail to realize that the Big East and Pac 10 do play every team and it’s not as needed. The Big Ten would be the conference that most needs one. I kinda agree with Wells that Ohio State might seem more legit than Missouri, but I think people need to take into account that if Missouri is in the title game, that will have meant they beat Oklahoma this week, which will bump them up in people’s minds considerably. If they lose, I think you’ll hear how Ohio State backed their way in. I actually question if WVU would pound OSU if people would say how Ohio State backed their way in, the Big Ten wasn’t great, they clearly weren’t the second best team, which means WVU might not be the best team, the Bucks can’t stop speed, and be even a bigger push for playoffs. Just kind of a rambling thought, not any type of guarantee that WVU would pound OSU.
People always worry about the BCS but it usually really comes out “OK”. I’d like to argue that LSU should be the highest ranked 2 loss team because of playing in toughest conference, 2 losses were in triple overtime to quality opponents, etc. but it really shouldn’t matter who the top two loss team is. I think an argument COULD be made for LSU over Ohio State just because they pounded V Tech and played in toughest conference but I’m not too worried about it. And for the record, it’s not that I think WVU’s resume is any better than OSU, but what I think is better is that we lost earlier (and on road), so LSU’s late loss is more similar to OSU’s late loss. Both in second to last game, Osu’s season ending early just makes it seem so much earlier.
Wells might be Mike Tranghese’s fluffer.
I love Dean’s thought processes on bowls and love how he fit the Bondathon in on here.
I think you can not like LSU against Hawaii for many reasons….no win situation for LSU, might rather see them clash with a BCS top team to show who’s boss, etc. But I think one thing that game definitely would be, is interesting.
thav916
November 28, 2007
With my prediction that Oklahoma will indeed beat Missouri for a second time on Saturday night, I wanted to take a look at what my BCS would look like:
BCS Title Game: WVU vs Ohio State
Orange Bowl: Virginia Tech vs Georgia
Fiesta Bowl: Oklahoma vs Arizona State
Rose Bowl: USC vs Missouri
Sugar Bowl: LSU vs Hawaii
By virtue of Missouri losing, Ohio State would rise to #2 in the BCS and play the WVU for the title. Virginia Tech goes to the Orange by contract, Oklahoma to the Fiesta by contract, USC to the Rose by contract, and LSU to the Sugar by contract. Because the Rose would have lost Ohio State to the BCS Title Game, they would get first choice among the at-large teams. Missouri, in my opinion, would be the most attractive option. Next up is the Orange, who I have taking Georgia to set-up a regional matchup between the Hokies and Dawgs. The Fiesta would follow with Arizona State in the desert, while Hawaii would land in the Sugar as the last at-large selection.
Under this format, some other interesting bowl games would be:
Capital One: Illinois vs Florida
Gator: Virginia vs Texas Tech
Cotton: Kansas vs Arkansas
Outback: Wisconsin vs Tennessee
Sun: Oregon State vs South Florida
Chick-fil-A: Auburn vs Clemson
Alamo: Michigan vs Texas A&M
A couple of thoughts…
-Man, I could go for some Chick-fil-A right about now.
-Who is ready for Raible’s BOWL POLL?!?!
Raible
November 28, 2007
Bowl Poll. Gonna be huge.
One thing to look out for is Illinois making the Rose Bowl. If they’re in the top 12 of the BCS aren’t they a lock? Currently 15th they could jump over the Tennessee/LSU and VTech/BC loser making them 13th. Would only need one other thing to happen…Arizona St, Hawaii, Oklahoma to lose.
Was thinkin after I posted and it’s really the “coulds” that make either argument horrible or great for BCS Title Game VS Playoff. There COULD be about 10 teams to finish undefeated (or more realistically 3-5) and in current system only 2 would play for title. There COULD be a team that goes 0-4 in non-conference but undefeated in conference and play in playoffs. There COULD be two undefeated Big Ten teams. I COULD go on. I really think I’m to the point where no matter what argument I hear, I hate it.
USC-Hawaii would be a pretty badass game. If Missouri loses to Oklahoma again and Hawaii is undefeated, I’d love to see Hawaii chosen over Missouri as the most attractive team against USC.
thav916
November 28, 2007
Illinois could definitely be a player in all of this, but under my predictions (which are bound to go wrong), I have Oklahoma, Hawaii, and Arizona State all winning to prevent Illinois from jumping over any of them.
Gonna be a great weekend, no doubt, though!
Raible
November 28, 2007
Ya I guess I just meant that two are guaranteed to happen and with the crazy BCS Illinois could easily jump a team that won this weekend or was off. Anyway, I am SO DONE WITH………..
People thinking Georgia deserves to be in the title game, is the hottest team in the country, is better than WVU, etc. And this is why….
I think far too often in sports people don’t take a step back and take a closer look at things. Pretty normal for guys like us, but why we don’t hear things like Wells’ email or what I’m about to say from experts who get paid for a living to do this is beyond me. Anyway.
I think the SEC is hands and shoulders the best conference in the land. Not even close. But, talking about Georgia, you really can’t even factor LSU into the equation. You almost have to pretend they aren’t in the same conference. Has anyone even looked at Georgia’s schedule? You notice who ISN’T on it? LSU, Arkansas, Mississippi St and Alabama. Look at what’s left and compare it to the Big East…..
Tennessee-Connecticut
Florida-Cincinnati
Kentucky-South Florida
Rutgers-Auburn
Louisville-South Carolina
Pitt-Vanderbilt
Syracuse-Ole Miss
Hell, they might still have the edge, but it’s damn close. I could see one on one matchups with those schools going any way. Notice anything else? Oh, yeah, Georgia lost to the best team on that list. One of TWO losses this year. As for non-conference take a look and compare opponents…
GEORGIA——WVU
Georgia Tech—-Mississippi State
Oklahoma St—-Maryland
Troy—–Western Michigan
Western Carolina—-Marshall
Is there really any difference in that list? Pretty damn comparable. But, oh, I forgot, Georgia is like Hanzel..SO HOT RIGHT NOW. They lost October 6th and have won six straight with an average score of 34-22. WVU lost one week earlier, September 28 and have won six straight with an average score of 43-18.
No one realizes these things. If Georgia would have only lost one game, right now they’d probably be ranked #1 and they’d be playing LSU this week with a chance to reign supreme. But they didn’t. They lost twice. And they didn’t even have to play LSU, Arkansas, Miss St or Alabama. So next time you hear someone on TV or read something on the internet that Georgia should be in the title game over WVU because “They think they’re better” just laugh and think of my fantastic post.
thav916
November 29, 2007
Sorry, we also played East Carolina and Georgia played Alabama. Don’t know why I missed those. Everything still applies.
thav916
November 29, 2007
Stewart Mandel’s response to this question:
Why are the Buckeyes getting no love for the NC game? I have not heard anyone talk about the possibility of OSU jumping West Virginia. Let me remind you that OSU’s sole loss was to 15th-ranked Illinois, where West Virginia lost to 25th-ranked USF.
–Dan, Kalamazoo, Mich.
Now I won’t go that far. While in reality, the primary reason the Mountaineers are ahead of Ohio State is because they lost less recently, there’s no question in my mind they’re the more deserving team, for two reasons.
Ohio State lost at home to 9-3 Illinois, whereas West Virginia lost on the road to 9-3 USF in a game in which it lost its star quarterback. And, more importantly, the Mountaineers played a much more impressive non-conference slate. While the Buckeyes were beating up on I-AA Youngstown State (38-6), 3-9 Kent State (48-3), 4-8 Akron (20-2) and 4-8 Washington (33-14), West Virginia had similar ease with three impending bowl teams: 7-5 Mississippi State (38-13), 7-5 East Carolina (48-7) and 6-6 Maryland (31-14).
Ironically, in almost any other season, this would not be a crutch for the Buckeyes. They just played a home-and-home with Texas the past two seasons, and will do the same with USC in 2008 and ‘09. It just so happens that their one BCS-conference foe this season, Washington, stinks.
Wells
November 29, 2007
Wow…home-and-home for OSU and USC. Sweet!
Raible
November 29, 2007
An interesting perspective, from my boy, for you Hawaii haters out there:
Paul Zeise: OK, I know I will get crucified for this but if Hawaii goes undefeated — they should be one of the two teams. I am so tired of people saying “their schedule, their schedule”. All I know is this — West Virginia has exactly one victory over teams currently ranked in the BCS top 25 — #23 Cincy. Hawaii has beaten #25 Boise State. And there is nobody in the world except for perhaps the almighty above who can say definitively that all these other teams would be undefeated against Hawaii’s schedule, particularly in the age of parity. And who on WVU’s schedule could you say definitively that they would absolutely beat Hawaii? Pitt? Rutgers? Cincy (who lost to Pitt)? Louisville? — in the age of parity it is so hard to go 12-0 and therefore in my book any team that does it should be given a shot. As for their opponent — I think WVU is the best of the 1-loss teams. So I’d say WVU-Hawaii in a game that might finish with a score of 77-72.
Raible
November 29, 2007
-That post WAS fantastic (I’m referring to the thav post a few posts back. Wells: figure out a way to get these posts numbered or I’ll opt out of my contract and walk). Seriously I do think that’s a pretty solid piece if work. Someone really cool obviously decided it was really sexy to argue that some under the radar SEC team with momentum is “the best” team every year even though they won’t get a chance to prove it. Well in fact, they had a chance- but they accidently lost at home to South Carolina in what’s become a semi-annual tradition. I like Georgia. I think they are an improving team. They don’t deserve to be anywhere that they aren’t.
-I probably should rephrase my thoughts on LSU-Hawaii. I think LSU might be the best team in the country, and I’d lke to see how the would perform against a top team from another BCS conference. I think Hawaii might be a decent team, and I’m mildly interested in seeing them have a chance to prove as much against a reasonably respectable team. I think Hawaii-USC could be decent. (I’ll mention again that I hate the conerence entaglements with the bowls. LSU-USC would be interesting- the two top teams to start the year. But of course we can’t have that because of the pointless auto-bids. I hate it.)
-I really like Paul Zeise (I used to play poker with him). I was disgusted when he was fired from the KDKA Sunday Sports Showdown. He has unique takes that appease no one, and I usually agree with an always respect his take. Tough call on how to handel Hawaii. I personally don’t worry about weird-conference teams, but you have to ask, when *would* one of these teams get a shot? If they scheduled a top 5 team by pure luck ten years prior and shut them out? I’m not concerned about the plight of the little guy, but it is kind of troubling on some level.
thegreatawakening
November 30, 2007
Looks as if Heisman is Tebow, McFadden and everyone else. Seems fitting as they are probably the 2 best players in the country after Dixon’s injury. Other players having good seasons were more driven by team success(White, Daniel, Bradford, Reesing, Beanie, etc) and others having great seasons were on lower level teams (Brennan, Smith, Crabtree). As different as my lists have been throughout the year I remember saying we might see one of the truest Heisman’s this year as the actual best player in the country. Unbiasedly I think if it’s Tebow OR McFadden it’s tough to complain that didn’t happen.
1. Tebow-Best season that I can ever think of
2. McFadden-Incredible player and performances
3. Dixon-You really only get 3 votes in the Heisman ballot. Dixon gets the nod as my 3rd choice.
Best of rest include all of the other guys I mentioned above. I suppose I’ll try to put an order to them….
4. Bradford-Most underrated player in the country all year long.
5. Daniel-Still a great year
6. White-Still a great year
7. Brennan-Missing games and 14 picks are more of the reason he’s this low as opposed to simply playing for Hawaii
8. Michael Crabtree-Remarkable season
9. Kevin Smith-Remarkable season
10. Beanie Wells-Bigtime beast
I agree with the two teams that made the BCS Title Game based on the system in place.
I heard a good way to put it recently. BCS Title Game reserves the team with the best season. Playoffs rewards the best team. To each their own.
I’m surprised Les Miles didn’t take the Michigan job. Really reminded me of Roy Williams taking the UNC job and 5 years later you almost forget he was at Kansas, and that was a guy at Kansas for a long time, unlike Miles at LSU.
Dean asked when a non-BCS team will ever make the BCS Title game. Might never happen. Here are my top 4 things needed to happen for it to happen, some you even mentioned
1. Have everyone returning from a tremendous team (ie if Boise returned 80%+ of starters this year or Hawaii did next year).
2. Luckily schedule a bigtime game 5-10 years in advance
3. Have a wacky season like this one
4. Have NFL Talent (I think you’re then perceived to actually be good)
Zeise is alright but pulls the race card far too often for my liking.
Can Bo Pelini please run the option?
Kansas being in BCS over Missouri is mind-boggling.
thav916
December 3, 2007
I wanna take a look at what some of the possibilities would be to determine a National Champion…
Current BCS Format:
Title Game – Ohio State vs LSU
-Really nothing to say about our current system as it is already the system in place.
Plus 1 Idea:
Rose – USC vs Ohio State
Sugar – LSU vs Hawaii
Fiesta – Oklahoma vs WVU
Orange – Virginia Tech vs Georgia
-While I don’t know how the exact matchups would take place, I am guessing that the above matchups would look something like how I have them under a Plus 1 system. If I understand it correctly, a Plus 1 system would eliminate the BCS Title Game (and, thus, 2 at-large bids – Illinois and Kansas in my scenario) and would send the conference champions to their “typical” bowl games (Big Ten vs Pac-10 in Rose, ACC to Orange, Big 12 to Fiesta, SEC to Sugar). Under the Plus 1, each of these games would be played, with 2 Title Game participants being selected from among the 4 winners. Or, perhaps, the top 4 teams would be chosen (currently Ohio State, LSU, Virginia Tech, and Oklahoma), paired up against each other (OSU vs OK and LSU vs VA Tech), and the winners would meet. In any case, I think that this scenario is better than the current system in place.
8-Team Playoff:
Rose – Ohio State vs Hawaii
Sugar – LSU vs WVU
Fiesta – Oklahoma vs Georgia
Orange – Virginia Tech vs USC
-Under this scenario, the top 8 teams (6 BCS conference winners and 2 at-large teams) would be put into a Playoff, with the winners advancing to the Final Four and eventual Title Game. I just threw the top 4 teams (OSU, LSU, VA Tech, and OK) into “their” bowls, paired off against their opponents. Again, the logistics would need to be worked out, but I think this scenario is better, too, than the one we have.
The one thing that needs to be pointed out is this: No matter what scenario is in place, the most important thing is taking care of business. By winning games, a team can put itself into position to play for the Title Game (the only team that this doesn’t apply to, whether right or wrong, is Hawaii or another non-BCS team). If Georgia, USC, Virginia Tech, Oklahoma, WVU, Kansas, Missouri, etc. woke up this morning upset because they aren’t in the Title Game, they have no one to really blame but themselves!
Raible
December 3, 2007
For those that haven’t seen yet…
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07339/839535-49.stm
Pitt beats WVU again!!!
Raible
December 6, 2007
No other final Heisman lists?
thav916
December 8, 2007
Oh wow, I have been slacking…
Final Heisman List:
1. Tim Tebow
2. Darren McFadden
3. Dennis Dixon
4. Sam Bradford
5. Chase Daniel
6. Colt Brennan
Raible
December 8, 2007
It’s a shame Dixon didn’t qualify to go to New York.
I was thinkin about all of those breakdowns of the different formats. Very good breakdowns. At first glance, I love the idea of the bowls getting back to the way they were and having the Plus 1. But then I thought about it and think there would be more confusion than ever with who would even play in the Plus 1 game. In Raible’s Plus 1 Format 1 if you have all four higher seeds won you’d be left with Ohio State, LSU, Oklahoma and Virginia Tech. Which two teams play? If all four lower seeds won you’d be left with USC, Hawaii, WVU and Georgia. Which two teams play?
In Raible’s Plus 1 Format 2, where you seed the top 4, a team like USC is still left out. Don’t get me wrong, I’d much rather screw over the 9th best team than the 5th best team, and much rather screw over the 5th best team than the 3rd best team but I see this format as a 4 team playoff and if you’re gonna go with a 4 team playoff I’d rather just see an 8 team playoff.
Because of those reasons I think I actually prefer either the current system or the 8 team playoff more than the Plus 1.
I do love when people complain that a USC or Oklahoma or Georgia is playing SO GREAT RIGHT NOW and doesn’t get a chance. Instead of complaining how bout you beat STANFORD, COLORADO, or SOUTH CAROLINA. Georgia would have had to come up big in the SEC Champ game but that’s all the other two had to do to be playing in the BCS Title Game this year. Don’t blame the system, blame yourselves.
A team like WVU loses it’s last game to heavy underdog at home and in a playoff would still get a shot at the title. Almost doesn’t seem right. Could of course make the argument that if the playoff was in place they would have already clinched their spot and the game wouldn’t have mattered (a shame in it’s own right), in any other sport you can lose your last game and still make the playoffs and win it all, and you still recognize and reward the season they had and if they’re gonna win it all it’s gonna take 3 straight wins against top 10 teams in the country. Tough to say there’s a right or wrong here, but just pointing out both sides. I also understand that in every conference with a conference title game you’re gonna have a team win it’s last game before the playoff (like an LSU).
Concerning the playoff I don’t understand two myths I seem to hear
1. You’d have to get rid of all of the other bowl games
2. You’d be playing into February/March
1. A system I’d propose is to have the 8 team playoff, 7 games, and make them all bowl games. Even if first round games were at home sites they could have a bowl sponsor. Keep all of the other bowl games and play them all the same. They don’t have National Title implications now so I don’t see why you couldn’t continue them.
2. Under my system I’d have the first round games 3 weeks after the final College Saturday. This year would be December 22. Play no other bowl games that day. Have an amazing December afternoon with 4 games. Or even one game Friday night and 3 on Saturday. I would then have the semi-finals on New Year’s day. Only two games, so you still have the Outback, Cotton, etc going on. Then have the National Title Game on the next Saturday following a full week. This year would be January 12th, only 5 days after. In the current system, teams have to wait 5-7 weeks before playing. I think playing that first round in mid-December would cause for teams to be fresher anyways.
I’d try to have something where the semi-finals and finals rotated between the Orange, Fiesta and Sugar every year and still make the Rose the biggest non playoff bowl. If Rose wanted in, then rotate 3 of the 4 every year and still have the odd man out have a huge bowl.
Obviously have to fine tune details that I have no idea about.
Overall I’m more ok than ever with the BCS Title Game. Any team that complains just needs to win more games. Far from perfect but I don’t think anything is. For the rare time a team like Auburn finishes undefeated, that team still went undefeated and will have that forever. While I might rank the Plus 1 system 3rd, I probably could be swayed if other people come up with things I haven’t thought of. Also, just like any other system, in SOME years it would be the best system. As for the playoff, I still think there are downfalls…each game wouldn’t matter as much, etc. But the best parts is the little guy would always get a chance and the teams would get a chance to settle it on the field like every other sport known to mankind. Or Dude Love.
thav916
December 8, 2007
Cam Saddler, Jon Baldwin, Mike Shanahan, Tino Sunseri…it’s been a good couple of weeks for Coach Wanny and the Pitt Panthers!
Raible
December 11, 2007
ESPN is doing a fictional 10-team playoff that will be played out throughout the week on SportsCenter. The 10 teams are:
1. Ohio State
2. LSU
3. Virginia Tech
4. Oklahoma
5. Georgia
6. Missouri
7. USC
8. Kansas
9. WVU
10. Hawaii
In today’s matchups, Kansas and USC, respectively, advanced from the play-in games. Not only do I not have a problem with these 2 teams advancing, but I actually think USC would advance the whole way to the championship.
I’m interested to see what everyone else thinks, but here is how my 10-team playoff would play out:
#7 USC defeats #10 Hawaii
#8 Kansas defeats #9 WVU
#1 Ohio State defeats #8 Kansas
#7 USC defeats #2 LSU
#6 Missouri defeats #3 Virginia Tech
#4 Oklahoma defeats #5 Georgia
#4 Oklahoma defeats #1 Ohio State
#7 USC defeats #6 Missouri
#4 Oklahoma defeats #7 USC
Call me crazy, but I think that the Sooners are the best team in the land. As Haver and I have mentioned, Sam Bradford is the most underrated player in the country; I think that OK beats Texas Tech if Bradford is healthy…that win would have them playing for the national title against Ohio State. Stoops is a great coach who has been there and done that. Oklahoma has a great defense and a great running game. In a year of upsets, they unfortunately tripped up at Colorado in addition to their loss to TX Tech. But, in a playoff, I think they would come out on top.
Raible
December 11, 2007
Just to update the ESPN bracket, Ohio State beat Kansas and Oklahoma beat Georgia. Today, Virginia Tech takes on Missouri and LSU plays USC.
Raible
December 12, 2007
USC beat LSU and Virginia Tech beat Missouri on ESPN, leaving us with the following Final Four:
Ohio State vs Oklahoma
USC vs Virginia Tech
What Bowl Games are you most looking forward to?
-I’m of course looking forward to the BCS Title Game for obvious reasons. I’m looking forward to the Sugar Bowl to see how Hawaii stacks up against a SEC opponent. I think the Fiesta Bowl will be intriguing as it pits who I consider to be the best team in the country (Oklahoma) against one of the teams that I despise (WVU). Michigan vs. Florida and Arkansas vs. Missouri in the Capital One and Cotton Bowls, respectively, should make for entertaining TV. I’ll pay particular attention, also, to the Alamo Bowl in the hopes that Penn State gets killed.
How do you think Bobby Petrino will fare at Arkansas?
-I have no doubt that Petrino will have some success at Arkansas. He’s inheriting a program that is making its 2nd consecutive New Year’s Day Bowl appearance, so it’s not exactly like he’s being asked to resurrect a program. Petrino experienced a lot of success at Louisville, and I would expect 9 or 10 wins per season from him is not out of the question. However, does anyone really believe that he wouldn’t leave Arkansas in a heartbeat for a better job or more money? Petrino has become the poster boy for the money/power-hungry movement by today’s college coaches.
Who is going to be the next coach at Michigan?
-Call me crazy, but I think that Les Miles is still headed to Michigan. I see LSU knocking off Ohio State in the Title Game, which would be the perfect swan song for Miles’ career at LSU.
What were the 5 biggest upsets this year?
1. App State over Michigan
2. Pitt over WVU
3. Stanford over USC
4. Colorado over Oklahoma
5. Illinois over Ohio State
Raible
December 13, 2007
Happy Two Year Anniversary.
Two years ago today, Tim Tebow committed to the University of Florida.
thav916
December 15, 2007
It looks like Rich Rodriguez is going to be the next coach at Michigan. And, no surprise, Terrelle Pryor announced today that Michigan is now one of his Top 5 schools.
Raible
December 17, 2007
The worst part, for me anyway, is that I think a Rich Rod Michigan team is Terrelle Pryor’s best option and even better than a Rich Rod WVU team. I will rate his options with explanation’s later.
thav916
December 17, 2007
I’m gonna take a different take on the top 4 upsets of the year. I agree with Raibs and just the fact that his #5 was Illinois over Ohio State I think it shows there was a clear cut top 4. BUT, I’m gonna give you my order…..
1. Stanford over USC-Stanford is horrible. Had a backup QB playing. USC is probably the most talented team in the country. Had everyone playing. At USC. BY FAR MY TOP UPSET OF THE YEAR.
2. Colorado over Oklahoma-Yes, this was at home but there was just no real reason for this loss. When healthy Oklahoma was basically a machine this year. This loss made no sense and therefore I think is a bigger upset than….
3. Pitt over WVU-My reasoning for putting it 3rd is simply because it’s a rivalry game and I honestly think anything can happen in a rivalry game. I also think because it was at the end of the year Pitt was more pumped up than say Colorado in the middle of the year in a random game.
4. Appalachian State over Michigan-This looked like it was the biggest. And yes, it was at the Big House. But would you pick App State over Stanford, Colorado and Pitt? I think I would. Would you pick USC, Oklahoma, and WVU over Michigan? Insert your Rich Rod joke here, but I think I would.
thav916
December 18, 2007
Terrelle Pryor
1. Michigan-Rich Rod will try to immediately run his spread attack and doesn’t have a QB on his roster capable of doing so. Pryor could immediately start. Michigan is somewhat close to home. Could play Big Ten basketball.
2. Ohio State-I think he could be the Tebow to Boeckman’s Leak in his freshman year and ala Tebow take over as a true sophomore in an offense that more suits his style.
3. Florida-This offense is the most dynamic in college football. It could be worth waiting his turn to get a chance to run the Gators for 2 years. Lots of “ifs” here. Could take a chance Tebow leaves early. Could take a chance he’d outplay Cam Newton and John Brantley when given the chance. If he’d be willing to redshirt this could be the best, I just don’t see Mr Wonderful redshirting.
4. Oregon-Arguably equal to Michigan in that Mike Bellotti can throw keys to Pryor and say “Here’s my offense.” Pac 10 hoops is obviously huge. Just think the big downfall here is that it’s 10 billion miles away.
5. Penn State-PSU just seems so old fashioned and boring. Truth be told with Pryor they probably become amazing. They always recruit great defensively, good lineman and even some decent skill positions recently. The top QB in the country obviously makes any team better. They can point to Michael Robinson ala Ohio State pointing to Troy Smith, but this just seems like slightly more of a question mark than the others. Penn State hoops also a huge drawback.
***WVU***–They might be out no matter what but always possible the right hire could get them back in the picture. If things would have stayed as is WVU would have been near the top if not at the top. This is about the biggest IF ever, but if WVU hired a perfect coach, Pryor didn’t go to Michigan and Jarrett Brown transferred to Michigan, Pryor to WVU would be perfect. Backup QB and line him up at WR as a freshman, take over for Pat White as a sophomore. If JB is still in the picture, I think it would complicate things when Pryor would be a sophomore, no matter who is coaching. Would be a great complication to have, though. Hoops with Hugs is always a plus.
thav916
December 18, 2007
Say what you will, but not only do I think that Pitt would beat App State, but I don’t think the Panthers are out of the Pryor sweepstakes…at least not yet. They might have a poor chance, but until I see him commit to somewhere else, I’m not ruling anything out with Wanny. I agree, though, that it looks like he could be headed to Michigan, where it will be interesting to see if Ryan Mallett transfers.
Raible
December 18, 2007
I wasn’t predicting where Pryor will go or ranking them in the order I think he’d go to. I was rating his 5 current choices based on the situation at hand and how he would fit. I threw WVU in at the end because I am an alum and have a particular interest in the team and they were a longtime candidate.
thav916
December 19, 2007
OK
Raible
December 19, 2007
Speaking of Pryor, he and his Jeannette Jayhawks got taken to school today by Todd Thomas and Beaver Falls here at RMU. Beaver Falls won by like 20 points, with the game never really getting close after Pryor picked up a Technical Foul with like 5 minutes left in the 1st half. Meanwhile, I know that Thomas, a Junior,is being recruited for football, too…he’s tough!
Raible
December 22, 2007
I had a big post following Raible’s big post about the types of playoff formats/non playoff formats to decide the national champion. I know there’s not a perfect system, but I’m interested in hearing other people’s thoughts and seeing if there’s anything maybe I didn’t think of. Rate in order, with pluses and minuses, the current BCS formats, a Plus 1 format (talking about both ways Raible mentioned it could be done) and an 8 team playoff. If for some reason you also like a 10 or 16 team playoff or other formats we haven’t talked about, please also mention.
If you forgot or couldn’t tell, I think my rankings are
1. 8 team playoff-Sure there are minuses to every game not mattering AS MUCH, but I feel like giving the top 8 teams a chance to prove themselves by winning 3 straight games against other top 8 teams decides and determines the best champion.
2. Current system-Every game just matters so much right now and that’s a good thing. Any team that complains could have simply lost less.
3. Plus 1-Just feel like while some years this could be perfect, it’s in the middle of the two and I either like to go all the way to 8 teams or stay with just 2.
thav916
December 22, 2007
THE PLAYOFF
There are really only two objectives that I am concerned with when thinking about the best possible system. How each of us defines these objectives and weighs them relative to one another determines the type of championship system we favor:
1. Maintaining a compelling regular season
2. Having a “fair” system.
If structured right I don’t think a playoff would make the regular season any less compelling. If anything a playoff would increase the volume of relevant football being played, albeit at the expense of some of the drama of the “must-win” early autumn games. (although after this year that drama has probably been reduced anyway.) If the playoff included too many teams and was open to more than one team per conference the regular season would be cheapened much more so than if the field was pretty exclusive and winning your conference was mandatory. This year’s LSU-Florida was highly anticipated because it would essentially eliminate one of the teams from title contention. If we had a 16 team playoff that would not be the case. If only the SEC champion would go to the playoffs then the game would have remained every bit as critical.
A “fair” system can mean a couple of different things. From one point of view, if the best four teams in the country were Georgia, Florida, LSU, and Tennessee, it would only be fair if a 4 team playoff included those 4 specific teams. From another point of view, it would have been unfair to include WVU and Ohio St. in this year in our current format over LSU, since LSU had a more difficult conference to navigate through. In both of these examples the problem is a lack of objectivity. The SEC may be the best conference, and those 4 teams may be the country’s 4 best, but we don’t know for sure. All we know for sure is that 12 team competed all season in the SEC and LSU won it. To me having a “fair” system means only that a team can’t be screwed out of an opportunity because of voter perception.
After thinking about all of that I’ve decided that I’m in favor of a 6-team playoff with the 6 major conference champions participating. I went with 6 instead of 4 because I feel that conferences and their best teams are impossible to evaluate properly, and I’d like to see them all in the playoff. In addition this forces seeds 3 and 4 into a harder road than 1 and 2. I really didn’t want to go to 8, partly because there are 6 major conferences, and also because my ultimate goal is still to crown the best team. It’s easy to forget that oftentimes the best team or teams are fairly obvious and I’m not interested in making them run a 3 team gauntlet just for the hell of it.
THE DOWNSIDES:
-Teams like Boise, Hawaii, ND would be excluded. I would have no problem including a clause that an outsider would replace the lowest seeded champ if they met certain criteria. Really though I don’t care about those teams. The NCAA is structured as such that they are included as division one teams, but I’d rather put them in a special categorization than worry about giving them a title shot.
-If two of the best teams in the country were in the same conference they’d be screwed. The way I see it that conference runner-up has already competed for a spot and failed to win it. For the purposes of a dramatic regular season, I want all of the inconference games to be an elimination game. Michigan-Ohio St. a couple of years ago would have been a joke if it was only for a bye.
As for the other options:
NEXT BEST: Tough call for me- going to four gets the default winner of the crappy conferences outta there and also makes the teams who are running away with their conferences sweat instead of lay back. Eight gives second life to a conference loser, which I don’t like. Interesting how different 4,6,and 8 all really are……I think I’ll go 4 and then 8.
BLAH: I think the plus-one probably causes just as much controversy as the current mess, although at least we would see Oklahoma, Ohio St, LSU, WV play a non-conference foe which would give us more material on which to judge. I guess I’m for it only because it gets change back on the table and it would mean an extra college football game, but as a final solution I think it basically blows.
WORST: The current system isn’t much worse than the plus-one like I said, and this is simply a vote for change. When the top 1 or 2 teams are clearcut this works well and the plus-one could make a mess of things, but I still think the worst case scenario is 3 undefeated major conference teams, and this is the one system that would realistically allow for an undefeated #2 team.
*****
Well, I’d like to discuss this some more. There’s more that I have to say about it but I’ve rambled too long for now. I hope someone will throw a post out there and we can start an exchange. I’ll check back shortly.
thegreatawakening
December 26, 2007
Dean, you are the man.
I agree completely with not liking a 2nd big conference team to make the playoff. I’m tired of the Georgia crap and I’ve already stated that. I still like the 8 team playoff but I wish the final 2 spots would go to non-BCS teams. There’s no way they would, but I guess I have to evaluate if I can live with that or not. The problem I see with the 4 team playoff is your eliminating 2 of the conference winners but not necessarily the 2 conference winners from “the weakest conferences.” For instance this year, in a 4 team playoff of the top 4 BCS, USC would be left out and VTech would be included. Don’t get me wrong, I’m the first to say USC should have won more. But I’m still not sure if I like the 4 team playoff more than what we’ve got now.
Ideally, it’d be awesome to take each conference winner…6 teams. For the final 2 spots, have some kinda of mini tournament involving the 5 other non-BCS conferences and Notre Dame. Could have the 2 highest rated. Could have the 4 highest rated play a mini tournament. Something like that. OBVIOUS downside is continuing to add games to the mix. But yeah, to sum it up, I’d rather see UCF get a chance to win 3/4 straight than Georgia.
The nice thing about an 8 team playoff is it’s kinda like a 12 or 16 team playoff, with the conference championships being like the first round and eliminating the loser. Downside is of course not all teams have them. Also, being realistic the 7th and 8th teams are usually gonna be from BCS conferences and I have a feeling you’d get “rewarded” for NOT playing in the conference title game……..think Georgia and Kansas making it this year over Tennessee and Missouri.
The 6 team playoff really would work out just based on having the exact 6 conference winners…rewarding the top with byes is always something i’m in favor of. I think there could be controversy on who gets the byes, but basically you’d have to think they’d be close to deserving. Not to mention, they’d currently be the two teams playing for the title, so anyone complaining at least has a chance to win out and prove themselves. I see the theory of not caring about the Boise’s and Hawaii’s but not sure if I like expanding to 6 and not giving them the chance. Also not sure about how I feel one of them jumping over the lowest ranked BCS team.
Could be sweet if the basic system was the 6 BCS conference winners bar none, no others allowed from BCS schools. BUT, any non-bcs team could be added to the mix if they met the necessary criteria. Notre Dame-ranked in top 10. Others must be undefeated. Something like that. If one more is added, you have a 7 team playoff. Two more you have an 8 team playoff. 3 more meet that criteria and you have the 8th and 9th ranked play each other but basically you hope that never happens. I think that’d be a badass system but also incredibly unrealistic.
This is Watercoolers, though…THE PLACE TO DREAM!!!!!!!!!!
thav916
December 27, 2007
Wow, Great stuff…
I can’t believe Haver mentioned the outside playoff for the final two spots, because that has been an idea of mine since people really began discussing a playoff with me last year. Not to say Haver took the idea, just would like to expand on what he said.
Obviously you take the 6 Major Conference Champs. So this year you have LSU, Va Tech, WVU, USC, OSU and Oklahoma.
Then you have the MAC champ play the Conf USA champ for one spot, followed by the WAC champ playing Mtn West Champ. These are the Top-8 conferences in my opinion.
Now the question then arises, what do we do with Notre Dame? My answer… Screw them!
Make the Irish join a conference by not allowing them to play in playoff. I’m sick of hearing that ND is so good, or only bad because of the schedule they play. If they want to run with the big boys, join a conference and keep USC on your sked. Since the conference champs go to the playoff, the USC game doesnt affect them as much.
Then you basically seed the teams based on a final ranking, whether it be computer or human poll.
Ideally, this year would most likely look like this…
1 Ohio State vs. NR UCF
2 LSU vs. 10 Hawaii
3 VA Tech vs 9 WVU
4 Oklahoma vs. 7 USC
All these games could be played at neutral bowl sites..
Now people can argue all they want about this system, but a team like Georgia didn’t even make their conference championship game, meaning they were the 3rd best team in the SEC. Missouri and Kansas both had their chance at the Big 12 title. So what do you do with these teams?
Have them play in the major bowl games still. You are telling me that AZ State vs Illinois wouldn’t be sweet in the Rose Bowl, or Georgia Kansas Sugar Bowl. How about Fiesta Bowl that featured Florida and Missouri while BC and whoever else is left play in the Orange? Have these games to give the playoff teams a break here and there.
Listen, in a perfect would this MIGHT work, but there’s too many things that come into play that might thwart my playoff system. I really don’t look at the bigger picture most of the time as far as scheduling, finances, etc. However, I atleast think my playoff system minus the 2nd tier big bowls is pretty solid.
Wells
December 27, 2007
“The problem I see with the 4 team playoff is your eliminating 2 of the conference winners but not necessarily the 2 conference winners from “the weakest conferences.” For instance this year, in a 4 team playoff of the top 4 BCS, USC would be left out and VTech would be included.”
This is pretty much my reasoning for ruling out the 4-team playoff as well as any system that ignores the conference system. Not only will teams that “shouldn’t” squeeze into the top 4, but I’m not even comfortable determining which two those are. Do we want the best four teams? Do we want the winners of the best four conferences? Do we want the four teams with the most impressive bodies of work, whether we think they are the best right now or not? None of these are possible to fairly determine anyway. Aside from a non-conference game or two, comparing a Big Ten team to a Big XII team is like comparing an Arena League team to a CFL team. We might think League A is bbetter than League B or Team X is better than Team Y, but we don’t really know.
Every year we determine the conference power rankings based on a handful of early games. Oregon crushes Michigan- the Pac 10 is great. Cal beats Tennesse- wow, it’s better than the SEC this year. Kentucky beats Louisville- yup, SEC=great/BigEast=Shit. And now we have this power structure to use for the rest of the season. Oregon blowing out Pac 10 teams is a sign of greatness, while WVU blowing out Big East teams proves the weakness of the conference. The WVU-Louisville shootout is bad football, but the LSU-Kentucky shootout is a thriller.
To me it should be like baseball. If you win the National League, you get to play the winner of the American League. Was Cleveland better than Colorado? Who cares? They both had a chance to beat Boston. Was Michigan better than Florida last year? Who cares? They both had a chance to beat Ohio State. Was Louisville better than Florida last year? I guess not because we’re pretty sure Florida’s one-loss record came against a tougher overall schedule than Louisville’s one-loss record? That’s weak. Florida lost at 11th ranked Auburn 27-17 and Louisville lost at 15th ranked Rutgers 28-25. Other than that they both beat everyone on their schedule. And really that’s beside the point anyway. The point is that nobody outside of Ohio St. and the SEC was given a chance to compete with Florida. It’s never been about bringing the best teams together for a tournament at the end of the year for me. It’s been about opportunity. I don’t care if LSU is the 2nd best team in the country. They played Florida and lost. Florida moved on.
The SEC is *probably* better than the Pac 10 this year by most definitions (which is beside the point to me), and LSU is *probably* better than USC (actually….). But LSU has never competed with and beat USC at anything. They beat Tennesse on the field, and they beat Georgia in the SEC season. Now I’d like to see them beat USC in a tournament. This is why I want a playoff with conference winners. And I want all 6 conference winners because the same logic can be used when choosing between USC and WVU, or Virginia Tech and Oklahoma.
***
As for the non-BCS teams…….I just think they are so far behind the big six, and have always been so, that I’m not going to modify the system to accomodate the occassional team that runs the table and has a punchers chance against a BCS team. I can understand the opposite point of view, but I just don’t see those conferences as Division 1. If it were up to me I’d call them Division 1b and be done with it. Of course if a team rises up they are welcome to join a legitimate conference, as is Notre Dame.
thegreatawakening
December 27, 2007
For the record, the idea of allowing the non-champs to earn the 7th and 8th seeds doesn’t really bother me. It would still give the top 2 a big advantage.
I still kind of think what’s the point. I like the idea of keeping the playoff as exclusive and special as possible. There would be 2 games, and then the 2 semifinals a week later. (for the top 2 it would really function as a four-team playoff) Either pair could be on New Year’s Day or a day or two afterwards, with plenty of pagentry for all 4. If you wanted to you could give each conference a “home” bowl, with the 5 and 6 seeds bowls reverting to the usual invitationals.
thegreatawakening
December 27, 2007
That’s supposed to read- NON-BCS CHAMPS
thegreatawakening
December 27, 2007
Man, all great points. Wells, love that your with me on the mini tourney (or I’m with you, or however you want to look at it). Dean, I agree completely with the rant about not being able to tell who’s the best or comparing teams/conferences.
I know we always have a tendency to think one of our ideas is the best, so i’m sorry, but I think I like my idea of having the 6 conference winners and then have other spots for conference champs IF they meet certain criteria. It’s a mix of allowing the smaller guys a shot, but not an automatic spot just because you went 8-4 and 7-1 in the MAC. But, I realize how farfetched this is.
Dean, your idea of just simply the 6 conference winners and then not allowing anyone else is probably the most realistic of these. I’d like to give the undefeated mid major a shot, but ALL OF THESE FORMULAS we’ve come up with have negatives. That’s what all of this comes down to….the positives vs the negatives.
The only negatives to Dean’s 6 BCS setup are:
A. Doesn’t give the occasional undefeated mid major a shot
B. Byes would be arbitrary
Those negatives MIGHT be the “best” out of all the systems. I’ll have to think of it harder, and maybe others can elaborate as well.
For instance, the main negative to a basic 8 team playoff is allowing 2 2nd place BCS teams in the mix. What do you hate worse………A mid major not having a chance and arbitrary byes OR allowing 2 2nd place BCS teams a chance and in the process slightly de-emphasizes the regular season.
It’s a tough call.
Not saying to throw away the positives. 8 team playoff, regardless of if you hate the 7th and 8th teams, you’re still giving 8 teams the opportunity to settle it on the field by winning three straight. If a healthy Oregon or Georgia or Missouri were in as a 7th or 8th seed and won 3 straight against these other 7 teams it’d be a pretty huge accomplishment. The other positive is that the mid majors get their shot. Once again, if Hawaii could pull off 3 straight wins..you know the rest. The positives to the 6 teamer is that it’s entirely equal having 1 team from every BCS and can reward the absolute best with a bye.
thav916
December 28, 2007
Good stuff. One thing that helps is that I think we all want to eliminate the Georgias and Missouris. Some people don’t, which is fine of course, but it starts to mess with the integrity of the regular season matchups, which goes against one of my cardinal rules.
As far as the byes go, I’ve said that one of my concerns is making the road fairly easy for the potential “traditional #1 teams,” in other words an undefeated USC team challenged by various BCS stragglers. I feel like the years where you have one or two clear-cut elite teams getting byes justifiably makes up for the years when they’re all clustered and the bye/non-bye drop off is a razor think decision with huge repercussions. But that’s really a product of the way I look at the whole thing. The bye “problem” doesn’t bother me- I’d be fine going by the BCS rankings.
Allowing for eligible non-BCS teams to earn a spot is something I’m fine with. I think the systems you guys have brought up (play-in playoff, or aimply adding them to the mix) are interesting and would make the process fun. I suppose partly I’m looking for a simple, feasible solution that makes for a fairly exclusive series of games, and partly I just never care about Hawaii. (Georgia -7.5 by the way. Nothing’s ever a lock but that line’s laughable. I don’t gamble anymore but I think I’ll be making an exception for Tennesse -2, Arkansas +3, and Florida -10.5 too.)
thegreatawakening
December 28, 2007
Dean wanting to bet every SEC team is great.
I agree with most of the things you’re saying.
With everything said, I think we have about 4 realistic formats.
A. BCS Title Game
B. 4 Team Playoff/Plus 1 (they’re kinda the same)
C. 6 Team Playoff-Each BCS winner
D. 8 Team Playoff-6 BCS and 2 wildcards
I’m throwing out
-6 BCS with open spots for mid majors that meet criteria
-6 BCS and mini tourney with mid majors to fit last 2 spots
-Any type of 8 team playoff that doesn’t allow a 2nd place BCS team to enter
I also like that we like to eliminate the 2nd place BCS teams. I feel like instead of adding and adding and adding ideas to the mix we should try to focus on the realistic ones. This is the place to dream, so it’s fun talking about anything and everything we want without having a care in the world so it’s still fun to talk about. But I feel like as much as I enjoy my 6 BCS and open spots for mid majors that meet criteria and as much as I like the mini mid major tourney it’s somewhat pointless to drill them in to everyone’s heads.
I’m not sure if I’m willing to put the 6 teamer all the way to the top or not. I think the 8 and 6 teams are at the top. BCS Title Game probably 3rd and the 4 team/Plus 1 is still last. It’s a shame that the little guy wouldn’t get a chance but I think I’ll defer to my boy Bill “Full of Wisdom” Curry. One time on Mike and Mike they asked him about the Cadillac/Ronnie/Campbell Auburn team getting nothing. Curry flipped out. He said, paraphrasing, You mean that 18-22 year old kids that went undefeated in D1 ball and won a bowl game GOT NOTHING? I feel the same about a team like Hawaii. You go undefeated, you win your bowl game. You have that the rest of your life. Ideally, in the perfect system, I wish they had a chance to win 3 straight. But I don’t think that perfect system exists. And because I’d eliminate teams like Hawaii if it guarantees eliminating 2nd place BCS schools, I think I prefer the 6 teamer the best.
thav916
December 28, 2007
The BCS, as it currently stands, is AMAZING…that gets my vote. College Football is perfect, so why change it? Who needs a Playoff?
Raible
December 28, 2007
The bowl season has produced some pretty entertaining games thus far, but the thing that pisses me off is how I am always tricked into thinking that the underdog is going to win. Seriously, how in the hell did I actually expect Central Michigan to beat Purdue, or Air Force to beat Cal? I’m an idiot.
Go Sooners!
Raible
December 31, 2007
First, I realized that I could give a shit about most of these bowl games. That’s first. Second, how horrible were the BCS selections this yr? Illinois was the FIRST PICK to play in the Rose Bowl!
Hawaii made everyone forget the job that Boise St. did in making mid-majors noticed. Tonight we have the Fiesta, followed by the Orange some shit bowls and then the Big Game. Honestly, tonight is the last game I will PROBABLY watch.
With that said, I figured I’d give my boy Raibs a little piece of what I’m thinkin’, since he’s a huge Sooners fan.(Hope you only said Go Sooners because you win your bowl pool if they win)
I am so pumped for tonight’s game. It’s the first game in two years where we have NOTHING on the line in my opinion. Therefore, I have been calm all day and not really nervous. The only bad thing that could happen to us is a blowout. It would set back our program, make Rich Rod look alot better and set back the Big East. However, people forget that Rich Rod did not play in any of the 29 games that Pat White and company won 25 of. I can’t believe that our talent is being overlooked and I feel like it only benefits us. Since Miami, VT and BC left the Big East is 2-1, with wins against the ACC and SEC. (Only loss was Pitt ‘04 to a non-BCS school) If we can capture another win for the conference it only goes to help solidify the case that the BIG EAST can compete. Therefore, I think anyone from a Big East School should be rooting for the Mounties. Pitt fans had there day in the sun and now need to realize the implications of this game as a whole and not just the fact that we are their immediate rivals.
Matt “Big East” Wells
Wells
January 2, 2008
I think you bring up an interesting point, Wells, regarding fans from Big East schools rooting for WVU last night. The way I see it is this:
WVU is Pitt’s biggest rival now that PSU is no longer on the schedule. As a result, I root against WVU every single time they play. However, in games against non-conference opponents, a WVU win isn’t necessarily a bad thing. WVU winning last night, even though I was rooting against them, was good for the conference. In many respects, it was a win-win situation for me as a Pitt fan.
In any case, congrats to all WVU fans on the win AND the hiring of Bill Stewart as the new head coach.
Raible
January 3, 2008
Now that Stewart has been hired it makes the comment by Wells that there was nothing on the line seem ironic. This morning you could have made the case that the future course of the program was on the line last night. We’ll never know how thew process was shaping up yesterday afternoon, but you have to wonder how things would have transpired had the team come out flat and sloppy as Oklahoma did. If Stewart does well last night’s victory will be a huge one. If Ken Kendrick is correct then ironically the team’s fantastic effort will prove to have been a counterproductive death-blow.
I have a couple of thoughts on the hiring itself. For one, Ken Kendrick is an asshole. Right or wrong, you harm the recruiting campaign when you publicly crush the new coach like he did. He said “I want Bill Stewart to win and I want our program to be successful,” but his need for attention has already hurt both coach and program. Secondly, I think Kendrick has underestimated the impact that simple passion can have on the success of a college program. The product on the field is still largely based on the talent you bring in, and it’s not like the offensive and defensive playbooks have been shredded. If Stewart can recruit, he’ll win, and there won’t be a more passionate and respectable coach going after these kids than Stewart.
thegreatawakening
January 3, 2008
This situation is very similar to a few years back at Miami. Anyone else think that? Butch Davis leaves an absolutely stacked team, the players love some old dude on the team and campaign for him to be the coach…he does great with the leftover talent…by years 4 and 5 there’s a decline…by year 6 they suck. Of course the players love Stewart, he seems like a tremendous guy. But the players also don’t take how to build a program and recruit into account. Whether Rodriguez stayed or it’s by a new coach our program could definitely take that next step. I’m not sure if that’s possible with Stewart. Not to mention it’s not like the entire staff from last night is staying. The man in charge of calling the plays last night is already out of Morgantown and working for Michigan.
With all of that said, this could be the perfect situation to have a stopgap. We weren’t exactly choosing between Halas, Lombardi, Noll and Bill Stewart. The talent is there. The scheme is there. No need to change anything. Should have a bigtime year. Perhaps could have a Wade Phillips-like effect where everyone is having a lot more fun as opposed to being uptight. The guy eats, sleeps and breaths West Virginia. His enthusiasm, love and passion is unparalled. Needs to hire a great staff. Offensive coordinator and head recruiter will be incredibly important. The man gave Tomlin his first coaching job so he obviously has a talent for greatness.
thav916
January 4, 2008
Love the Miami comparison. I almost like the idea of having Stewart finish out with these players who backed him, but grab a couple of new coaches we could groom to step in and take over in a couple of years. I was reading on a wv message board someone lobbying for the OC at Appalachian state to come here. He’s young and has groomed some great offenses who have won 3 straight IA titles as well as beating Michigan…..The one thing you have to wonder is if the guy can recruit…
Wells
January 4, 2008
Scott Satterfield is the coach from ASU who is being talked about. He graduated App St in ‘96 so he’s relatively young but does a great job as QB coach and calling plays. Also wonder if we don’t try to bring Trickett back as OC and line coach. At the very least he could bring our O-Line back to the level it was before this season.
Wells
January 4, 2008
The other comparison could be like North Carolina basketball when Bill Guthridge (that was his name, right?) took over for Dean Smith after Smith retired. Guthridge, like Stewart, was a guy that was obsessed with everything about his school and a guy that the players loved. Of course, Guthridge didn’t last extremely long as coach, but he was a decent stop gap between Smith and who they thought was the top up-and-coming coach in Matt Doherty.
Raible
January 4, 2008
Fair points regarding the players perspective of “the right man for the job” and how their view of the situation is really an incomplete one. Talented assistants/recruiters will need to be brought in without question. As with any change, this one carries with it the risk of losing what’s already here, which makes it somewhat unsettling. I’m personally refreshed to see what seems like a genuine person get the job instead of this new breed of CEO-coaches, but the Coker comparison is certainly valid. Perhaps I might be more concerned if were a bit more emotionally invested with the team as I am with the Steelers.
thegreatawakening
January 5, 2008
Just when I was starting to think that “You know what the problem with Larry Coker at Miami was…..they didn’t accept the fact that he was a stopgap. If they would have realized that, they could have had their 3 or 4 great years and then had an assistant coach like Shannon ready to step in immediately.” I really thought I was on to something. Then I realized. Coker went 35-3. What program in their right mind would make a coach that went 35-3 in his first three years step down because they can clearly see the program is going down here?!? Pretty much the only way this works is if the Coker or Stewarts of the world want to retire after 3 seasons.
thav916
January 5, 2008
What a day in college football! Not just one but two High School All-American games. Kids making huge decisions. Two biggest I’m looking forward to are CB Patrick Johnson and OT Matt Patchan, both choosing between Florida, Miami and LSU. Patchan can’t play in the game and will be choosing at home but is still supposed to make a decision. Did I mention it will be huge?
thav916
January 5, 2008
I originally picked LSU to beat Ohio State, but I have changed my mind. I just can’t see Jim Tressel getting beat in back-to-back years in the BCS Title Game…he is not only too good of a coach, but the sweater vest is too freakin’ sweet. I’m picking Ohio State 21-17.
Raible
January 7, 2008
It’s been a hectic couple of months for WVU, but some interesting things are also going on up at Pitt. The Pitt-WVU rivalry has been strange for me since 2000. I grew up a Pitt fan, but Penn State was really considered the main rival even though they didn’t always play, so I never really had any annimosity towards WV. When I got down to Morgantown Pitt was on a roll under Walt Harris and the Wide Receiver U thing was in full gear with Antonio Bryant and Larry Fitzgerald, the greatest wide receiver in the history of collegiate athletics. I was still able to pull for Pitt while hoping for some life out of the Mountaineers since they weren’t really getting in each other’s way too much (unlike this year). Over the last couple of years the focus has been squarely on WV and their exciting and successful brand of ball. Plus I wasn’t a fan of the Wannstedt hire.
But now, even in the wake of the most pitiful and painful upset imaginable in the Brawl, I’m happy to see Wannstedt continuing to score some recruiting coups. When The Mustache arrived the cupboard was empty, but he has continued to make progress, especially locally. Just read in today’s paper that he’s locked up the 3rd of the 4 WPIAL players ranked in the top 50, as Shane Hale (LB, Gateway) joins Jonathan Baldwin (WR, Aliquiuppa) and Lucas Nix (OT, TJ), as well as teammate Cam Saddler who’s a poor man’s Noel Devine. What’s been most impressive is that Hale in particular had no real interest in Pitt and wanted to leave the area but eventually caved to the relentless seduction of The Mustache. The Stache is just a closer plain and simple. I tend to doubt the man’s tactical and strategic abilities, but he’s really getting it done as a recruiter. The O-Line appears to be shored up, and the team has a true stud tailback in LeSean McCoy. I’m not sold on Pat Bostick at QB but we’ll see.
In many ways I still think Pitt misses Walt Harris. Despite his shortcomings he got a lot out of his quarterbacks and was consistently able to bring in, coach up, and playcall for elite receivers. A combination of The Stache’s grassroots recruiting and Walt’s offensive masterplans would be pretty dangerous in the Big East. (And then all they’d need is someone to handle the clock and other game-management basics). I think getting Steve Pederson back as AD is huge for a number of reasons, and he’s the type of administartor who has the vision and balls to orchestrate a 3-headed coaching monster of Wannstedt, Harris, and a competant veteran to lead this team back to glory.
What’s the next step while we’re at it? Let’s get Terrelle Pryor to Pitt. I’ve got it all worked out, and we’ve got several things working for us. For starters we have the OJ Mayo logic. It takes a certain type of guy and caliber of player to choose this route, but the idea is to elevate a run-of-the-mill program and put your stamp on the town rather than frontrun with a bunch of other blue-chippers. Pryor could do this at Pitt. Reason two? There’s a reason that PSU and OSU are still on the list after Texas and Tennessee have exited. Proximatey to home is playing a role here. The advantage that Pitt would have is that Pittsburgh is still his home city. The legacy he could establish as the local HS legend who put Pitt Football on his back and brought them back to prominance would equal or surpass Marino’s. I think this would matter to Pryor. I think the third big factor is The Stache, the perfect man to tie it all together. He’s got the same accent and sports the same dated facial hair that Pryor has dealt with his whole life in Western PA. He knows that TP can go wherever he wants, and he knows how to sell him on the ideas we’ve laid out here today. The offense will have balance, and have more of a pro style than the fancy spreads at Oregon and Michigan. The strong, traditional running attack featuring McCoy will set up everything early on, but the program, and the city, will eventually belong to Pryor. The Mustache got Hale because everyone else was talking about defensive end and Hale wanted to hear about linebacker. As he grows into the college game who knows where he will end up. But The Stache made him comfortable. Time to do the same with Pryor.
So there it is: sign Pryor, bring back Walt, and get to some BCS games. In all seriousness I’m glad to see Wannstedt locking down Western PA, and I’m looking forward to some Brawls that actually test my rooting interests.
thegreatawakening
January 7, 2008
If it does indeed come down to Ohio State vs. Michigan, I really hope Pryor goes to Ohio State! F Coach Rod!
Raible
January 25, 2008